Drawing for generating outputs at multiple different scales
Now that I have enough knowledge to really start drawing up my large project cave systems, I am discovering that it is difficult to draw scraps in a way which renders nicely at different scales. I want to be able to produce a very detailed survey (using a scale of around 1:500) but also to output a complete system drawing at a scale more suited to a large map (say 1:5000). I find symbols getting rendered larger than the passage widths (which seems odd as unless people have much larger passages than me in their caves, I would expect symbols to be limited to a sensible scale for a typical large passage, or omitted?). But also text labels are so large that they obscure entire areas of the cave at the 1:5000 scale. Any tips and tricks for how to draw once, use twice? Or do I really need to maintain two copies of every scrap? Is there a way to draw some detail on a scrap for 1:5000 type scale, and then augment it with fine details for rendering at 1:500 by adding a second scrap for the labels and symbols? Footleg
Try base-scale <picture length> <real length> m. Mar 3, 2014 v 7:01 PM, Footleg <drfootleg@gmail.com>:
Any tips and tricks for how to draw once, use twice? Or do I really need to maintain two copies of every scrap? Is there a way to draw some detail on a scrap for 1:5000 type scale, and then augment it with fine details for rendering at 1:500 by adding a second scrap for the labels and symbols?
Martin Sluka - Studio Sluka prodej Hahnemühle DFA tisk fotografií, reprodukcí a volné tvorby Na Rovnosti 2692/21 130 00 Praha 3 tel.: +420 603513640 mail: martinsluka@mac.com web: http://www.piezografie.cz
Thanks Martin, I had already played with basescale, but of course it just shrinks the size of everything so it is smaller and gets too small to be practical. I like the approach Bruce took in his templates which hides symbols at larger scales. So much still to learn! Footleg On 3 March 2014 18:44, Martin Sluka <martinsluka@mac.com> wrote:
Try base-scale <picture length> <real length>
m.
Mar 3, 2014 v 7:01 PM, Footleg <drfootleg@gmail.com>:
Any tips and tricks for how to draw once, use twice? Or do I really need to maintain two copies of every scrap? Is there a way to draw some detail on a scrap for 1:5000 type scale, and then augment it with fine details for rendering at 1:500 by adding a second scrap for the labels and symbols?
Martin Sluka - Studio Sluka
prodej Hahnemühle DFA tisk fotografií, reprodukcí a volné tvorby
Na Rovnosti 2692/21 130 00 Praha 3 tel.: +420 603513640 mail: martinsluka@mac.com web: http://www.piezografie.cz
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Footleg This was one of my early challenges shortly after discovering Therion, and it crops up from time to time on this forum. I have decided that with 'draw once, use many times' I am limited to about half an order of magnitude difference in scales (ie 1:500 to 1:2000) to get label spacing and symbol placement that is more or less OK at a range of scales. Personally, once I get to 1:5000 I pretty much turn off all symbols. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/templates Judicious use of text scales xs, s, m, l, xl allows one to crudely hide minor text at smaller scales. You can use base-scale to globally reduce all text and symbol sizes. Thomas Holders examples show how symbols can be made to plot to suit the scale. Ie hide smaller symbols. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/metapost?s[]=thomas#scale_dependant_v isualization_of_symbols <http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/metapost?s%5b%5d=thomas#scale_depend ant_visualization_of_symbols> People have proposed various 'dual scrap' scenarios, but it seems to defeat what simplicity Therion has :) You could use 'revise' for each symbol, but I think madness would lie down that route. Check the wiki. Bruce _____ From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Footleg Sent: Tuesday, 4 March 2014 7:01 a.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: [Therion] Drawing for generating outputs at multiple differentscales Now that I have enough knowledge to really start drawing up my large project cave systems, I am discovering that it is difficult to draw scraps in a way which renders nicely at different scales. I want to be able to produce a very detailed survey (using a scale of around 1:500) but also to output a complete system drawing at a scale more suited to a large map (say 1:5000). I find symbols getting rendered larger than the passage widths (which seems odd as unless people have much larger passages than me in their caves, I would expect symbols to be limited to a sensible scale for a typical large passage, or omitted?). But also text labels are so large that they obscure entire areas of the cave at the 1:5000 scale. Any tips and tricks for how to draw once, use twice? Or do I really need to maintain two copies of every scrap? Is there a way to draw some detail on a scrap for 1:5000 type scale, and then augment it with fine details for rendering at 1:500 by adding a second scrap for the labels and symbols? Footleg
Thanks Bruce, Those templates are immensely useful. I looked at them some years ago but at the time did not know enough to understand how to use them. A fresh look has got me up and running with a significantly better rendering of 1:5000 scale. I will probably spend far too long playing with them now rather than actually drawing anything new to be sure I have things working in my scraps properly before I spend a load of time drawing up a load more. Footleg On 3 March 2014 18:56, Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Footleg
This was one of my early challenges shortly after discovering Therion, and it crops up from time to time on this forum.
I have decided that with 'draw once, use many times' I am limited to about half an order of magnitude difference in scales (ie 1:500 to 1:2000) to get label spacing and symbol placement that is more or less OK at a range of scales.
Personally, once I get to 1:5000 I pretty much turn off all symbols. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/templates
Judicious use of text scales xs, s, m, l, xl allows one to crudely hide minor text at smaller scales.
You can use base-scale to globally reduce all text and symbol sizes.
Thomas Holders examples show how symbols can be made to plot to suit the scale. Ie hide smaller symbols. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/metapost?s[]=thomas#scale_dependant_visualization_of_symbols
People have proposed various 'dual scrap' scenarios, but it seems to defeat what simplicity Therion has :)
You could use 'revise' for each symbol, but I think madness would lie down that route.
Check the wiki.
Bruce
------------------------------
*From:* therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Footleg *Sent:* Tuesday, 4 March 2014 7:01 a.m. *To:* List for Therion users *Subject:* [Therion] Drawing for generating outputs at multiple differentscales
Now that I have enough knowledge to really start drawing up my large project cave systems, I am discovering that it is difficult to draw scraps in a way which renders nicely at different scales. I want to be able to produce a very detailed survey (using a scale of around 1:500) but also to output a complete system drawing at a scale more suited to a large map (say 1:5000). I find symbols getting rendered larger than the passage widths (which seems odd as unless people have much larger passages than me in their caves, I would expect symbols to be limited to a sensible scale for a typical large passage, or omitted?). But also text labels are so large that they obscure entire areas of the cave at the 1:5000 scale.
Any tips and tricks for how to draw once, use twice? Or do I really need to maintain two copies of every scrap? Is there a way to draw some detail on a scrap for 1:5000 type scale, and then augment it with fine details for rendering at 1:500 by adding a second scrap for the labels and symbols?
Footleg
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Playing with the scale layouts, I notice that label lines still display text at 1:5000, but label points do not. It also appears that label lines stretch the text to match the length of the line regardless of the font scale set in the options for the label line. I was hoping there would be a way to set text so that if the font size makes the text size shorter than the line when the text would not stretch out along the full line length, but if the text scale made it larger than the line length then it would be limited to the length of the line. This would prevent text growing to be excessively large and run over the cave passage, but at scales where smaller text scales are set it is not stretched out so much along the line. Is something like this possible? Footleg On 3 March 2014 18:56, Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Footleg
This was one of my early challenges shortly after discovering Therion, and it crops up from time to time on this forum.
I have decided that with 'draw once, use many times' I am limited to about half an order of magnitude difference in scales (ie 1:500 to 1:2000) to get label spacing and symbol placement that is more or less OK at a range of scales.
Personally, once I get to 1:5000 I pretty much turn off all symbols. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/templates
Judicious use of text scales xs, s, m, l, xl allows one to crudely hide minor text at smaller scales.
You can use base-scale to globally reduce all text and symbol sizes.
Thomas Holders examples show how symbols can be made to plot to suit the scale. Ie hide smaller symbols. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/metapost?s[]=thomas#scale_dependant_visualization_of_symbols
People have proposed various 'dual scrap' scenarios, but it seems to defeat what simplicity Therion has :)
You could use 'revise' for each symbol, but I think madness would lie down that route.
Check the wiki.
Bruce
Playing with the scale layouts, I notice that label lines still display text at 1:5000, but label points do not.
That seems odd.
It also appears that label lines stretch the text to match the length of the line regardless of the font scale set in the options for the label line.
That is my understanding as I described here http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/drawingchecklist#lines
I was hoping there would be a way to set text so that if the font size makes the text size shorter than the line when the text would not stretch out along the full line length, but if the text scale made it larger than the line length then it would be limited to the length of the line. This would prevent text growing to be excessively large and run over the cave passage, but at scales where smaller text scales are set it is not stretched out so much along the line. Is something like this possible?
Not as far as I know. The text should only overwrite cave passage if the line crosses the passage or if the line is very close to the passage. The maximum text height is controlled by -scale xs to xl, so you have very good control of that. Once I figured out how it works I decided I like the behavior of 'line label'; -you set the (maximum) text size, and the text path and length exactly where you want it -if the text won't fit its size is reduced until it does. What I have found, if the scales are not too divergent, the desirable text path length is about the same regardless of the scale. Where this doesn't work for me I use 'point label'. Bruce
Turns out it was just label lines with text set to xl size which were appearing at 1:5000. But the text was rendering smaller than xl because my lines were not that long. Having played with label lines a bit more I understand how they work now. What I don't like is how the text character spacing gets wider when the line is longer than is needed for the text when rendered at the specified size. What I would like is an option to specify that the text should shrink to fit the line when the line is shorter than the text would be at the scale specified, but not be stretched out when the line is too long. That way I could put my labels on long lines and not see them stretched too much at more detailed scale rendering (1:1000), but have them shrink to stay within the bounds of the line ends when rendering at much less detailed scales (1:5000). Footleg On 4 March 2014 06:29, Bruce <bruce@tomo.co.nz> wrote:
Playing with the scale layouts, I notice that label lines still display text at 1:5000, but label points do not.
That seems odd.
It also appears that label lines stretch the text to match the length of the line regardless of the font scale set in the options for the label line.
That is my understanding as I described here http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/drawingchecklist#lines
I was hoping there would be a way to set text so that if the font size makes the text size shorter than the line when the text would not stretch out along the full line length, but if the text scale made it larger than the line length then it would be limited to the length of the line. This would prevent text growing to be excessively large and run over the cave passage, but at scales where smaller text scales are set it is not stretched out so much along the line. Is something like this possible?
Not as far as I know. The text should only overwrite cave passage if the line crosses the passage or if the line is very close to the passage. The maximum text height is controlled by -scale xs to xl, so you have very good control of that.
Once I figured out how it works I decided I like the behavior of 'line label';
-you set the (maximum) text size, and the text path and length exactly where you want it
-if the text won't fit its size is reduced until it does.
What I have found, if the scales are not too divergent, the desirable text path length is about the same regardless of the scale.
Where this doesn't work for me I use 'point label'.
Bruce
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
participants (3)
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Bruce -
Footleg -
Martin Sluka