Hi! it is possibile to force Therion to compute one part of a loop and then to compute the remain part keeping the first computed part fixed or, in other words, to distribute the misclosure error only in the second part of the loop? Sorry for my very poor english. Regards, Fede -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/loop-misclosure-error-distribution-tp34675277p34675277... Sent from the Therion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
Not yet, it should be implemented. What for do you need this feature? We created therion to avoid doing things like this :) Regards, S. On 13 November 2012 20:08, Cepe <ron7170@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
Hi! it is possibile to force Therion to compute one part of a loop and then to compute the remain part keeping the first computed part fixed or, in other words, to distribute the misclosure error only in the second part of the loop?
Sorry for my very poor english. Regards, Fede -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/loop-misclosure-error-distribution-tp34675277p34675277... Sent from the Therion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Essentially I need this feature to handle a loop with a part in a quarry/mine, with data collected with a total station that i would maintain fixed, and part formed by a cave intersecting the mine. I think that I can do this with a little workaround (I think but I'm not sure of this), calculating only the mine's data, getting the GPS fix (calculated) of the intersection stations and then recalculating the entire survey with this station fixed but is a long work. Reading the Survex manual i founded a SOLVE command that seemed usable for my purpose so, before taking this way, I asked... ;) Stacho Mudrak-5 wrote:
Not yet, it should be implemented.
What for do you need this feature?
We created therion to avoid doing things like this :)
Regards, S.
On 13 November 2012 20:08, Cepe <ron7170@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
Hi! it is possibile to force Therion to compute one part of a loop and then to compute the remain part keeping the first computed part fixed or, in other words, to distribute the misclosure error only in the second part of the loop?
Sorry for my very poor english. Regards, Fede -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/loop-misclosure-error-distribution-tp34675277p34675277... Sent from the Therion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
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In this case I use the fix directive...but the sd (and grade) directive was the option I'm looking for... Many thanks for all the help!!!! Martin Sluka wrote:
On 14.11.2012, at 10:25, Cepe wrote:
data collected with a total station
With total station you should have coordinates of stations available, aren't you.
So add in the beginning of centreline as many fix points as you need and continue with cave surveyings.
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Anyway, take care about coordinate systems and declination! m. On 14.11.2012, at 11:40, Cepe wrote:
In this case I use the fix directive...but the sd (and grade) directive was the option I'm looking for... Many thanks for all the help!!!!
Martin Sluka wrote:
On 14.11.2012, at 10:25, Cepe wrote:
data collected with a total station
With total station you should have coordinates of stations available, aren't you.
So add in the beginning of centreline as many fix points as you need and continue with cave surveyings.
m.s. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
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Unfortunately, SOLVE feature is not implemented in therion. If we have surveys done with total station, we usually process them in another software (due to completely different loop closure algorithms) and import fixed station coordinates - exactly the workaround you have described. Kind regards, S. On 14 November 2012 10:25, Cepe <ron7170@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
Essentially I need this feature to handle a loop with a part in a quarry/mine, with data collected with a total station that i would maintain fixed, and part formed by a cave intersecting the mine. I think that I can do this with a little workaround (I think but I'm not sure of this), calculating only the mine's data, getting the GPS fix (calculated) of the intersection stations and then recalculating the entire survey with this station fixed but is a long work. Reading the Survex manual i founded a SOLVE command that seemed usable for my purpose so, before taking this way, I asked... ;)
Stacho Mudrak-5 wrote:
Not yet, it should be implemented.
What for do you need this feature?
We created therion to avoid doing things like this :)
Regards, S.
On 13 November 2012 20:08, Cepe <ron7170@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
Hi! it is possibile to force Therion to compute one part of a loop and then to compute the remain part keeping the first computed part
fixed
or, in other words, to distribute the misclosure error only in the second part of the loop?
Sorry for my very poor english. Regards, Fede -- View this message in context:
http://old.nabble.com/loop-misclosure-error-distribution-tp34675277p34675277...
Sent from the Therion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Cannot sd <quantity list> <value> <units> be used to do the same thing?
From teh survex manual
SD Syntax *sd <quantity list> <standard deviation> Example *sd tape 0.15 metres Description *sd sets the standard deviation of a measurement. <quantity> is one of TAPE|COMPASS|CLINO|COUNTER|DEPTH|DECLINATION|DX|DY|DZ <standard deviation> must include units and thus is typically "0.05 metres", or "0.02 degrees". See *units below for full list of valid units. To utilise this command fully you need to understand what a standard deviation is. It gives a value to the 'spread' of the errors in a measurement. Assuming that these are normally distributed we can say that 95.44% of the actual lengths will fall within two standard deviations of the measured length. i.e. a tape SD of 0.25 metres means that the actual length of a tape measurement is within + or - 0.5 metres of the recorded value 95.44% of the time. So if the measurement is 7.34m then the actual length is very likely to be between 6.84m and 7.84m. This example corresponds to BCRA grade 3. Note that this is just one interpretation of the BCRA standard, taking the permitted error values as 2SD 95.44% confidence limits. If you want to take the readings as being some other limit (e.g. 1SD = 68.26%) then you will need to change the BCRA3 and BCRA5 files accordingly. This issue is explored in more detail in various surveying articles. See Also *units Andrew On 14/11/12 09:25, Cepe wrote:
Essentially I need this feature to handle a loop with a part in a quarry/mine, with data collected with a total station that i would maintain fixed, and part formed by a cave intersecting the mine. I think that I can do this with a little workaround (I think but I'm not sure of this), calculating only the mine's data, getting the GPS fix (calculated) of the intersection stations and then recalculating the entire survey with this station fixed but is a long work. Reading the Survex manual i founded a SOLVE command that seemed usable for my purpose so, before taking this way, I asked... ;)
Stacho Mudrak-5 wrote:
Not yet, it should be implemented.
What for do you need this feature?
We created therion to avoid doing things like this :)
Regards, S.
On 13 November 2012 20:08, Cepe <ron7170@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
Hi! it is possibile to force Therion to compute one part of a loop and then to compute the remain part keeping the first computed part fixed or, in other words, to distribute the misclosure error only in the second part of the loop?
Sorry for my very poor english. Regards, Fede -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/loop-misclosure-error-distribution-tp34675277p34675277... Sent from the Therion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
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I'm not a super-expert...but this is exactly what I'm looking for. In this case I will use the 'fix' directive but in other cases, using sd (or grade) directive, I can force misclosure error to be distributed with a different weight and with sd directive I can do this with a very high detail. Thanks!!! and ops...sorry, the answer was in the manual... Andrew Atkinson wrote:
Cannot
sd <quantity list> <value> <units>
be used to do the same thing?
From teh survex manual
SD
Syntax
*sd <quantity list> <standard deviation> Example
*sd tape 0.15 metres
Description
*sd sets the standard deviation of a measurement.
<quantity> is one of TAPE|COMPASS|CLINO|COUNTER|DEPTH|DECLINATION|DX|DY|DZ
<standard deviation> must include units and thus is typically "0.05 metres", or "0.02 degrees". See *units below for full list of valid units.
To utilise this command fully you need to understand what a standard deviation is. It gives a value to the 'spread' of the errors in a measurement. Assuming that these are normally distributed we can say that 95.44% of the actual lengths will fall within two standard deviations of the measured length. i.e. a tape SD of 0.25 metres means that the actual length of a tape measurement is within + or - 0.5 metres of the recorded value 95.44% of the time. So if the measurement is 7.34m then the actual length is very likely to be between 6.84m and 7.84m. This example corresponds to BCRA grade 3. Note that this is just one interpretation of the BCRA standard, taking the permitted error values as 2SD 95.44% confidence limits. If you want to take the readings as being some other limit (e.g. 1SD = 68.26%) then you will need to change the BCRA3 and BCRA5 files accordingly. This issue is explored in more detail in various surveying articles. See Also
*units
Andrew
On 14/11/12 09:25, Cepe wrote:
Essentially I need this feature to handle a loop with a part in a quarry/mine, with data collected with a total station that i would maintain fixed, and part formed by a cave intersecting the mine. I think that I can do this with a little workaround (I think but I'm not sure of this), calculating only the mine's data, getting the GPS fix (calculated) of the intersection stations and then recalculating the entire survey with this station fixed but is a long work. Reading the Survex manual i founded a SOLVE command that seemed usable for my purpose so, before taking this way, I asked... ;)
Stacho Mudrak-5 wrote:
Not yet, it should be implemented.
What for do you need this feature?
We created therion to avoid doing things like this :)
Regards, S.
On 13 November 2012 20:08, Cepe <ron7170@iperbole.bologna.it> wrote:
Hi! it is possibile to force Therion to compute one part of a loop and then to compute the remain part keeping the first computed part fixed or, in other words, to distribute the misclosure error only in the second part of the loop?
Sorry for my very poor english. Regards, Fede -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/loop-misclosure-error-distribution-tp34675277p34675277... Sent from the Therion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
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participants (4)
-
Andrew Atkinson -
Cepe -
Sluka Martin -
Stacho Mudrak