I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening. Martin
Errrr. I wish I could come... Philip Schuchardt On Tuesday 20 February 2007 9:00 am, Martin Budaj wrote:
I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening.
Martin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Hi Martin, thanks for the offer, but I will also not be able to attend :-) Anyway, I think it is time to say thank you for the wonderful program that you guys have created! I think it is really a revolution in drafting of cave surveys! However, I have one suggestion: Therion is particularly good at exporting a wide variety of formats ranging from CAD to GIS thus making it very handy for all kinds of post-precessing. The only problem that I have is that me and my friends have a couple of cave maps that were drafted before the advent of Therion using several commercially available CAD programs like CorelDraw, Adobe Illustrator or AutoCAD. I would however like to be able to convert at least the cave outline if not the whole cave map to the Therion format to make use of the excellent features of this software e.g. direct shapefile export and display of dynamic cave maps. Therefore my question is: have you ever considered implementing a filter or even a standalone program that could import vector graphics from other CAD software? I understand that due to the special scrap structure and hierarchy of Therion maps this might not be an easy task but I feel that it might be doable by simply converting svg files (which can be easily generated by almost all CAD software available) to some sort of intermediate Therion format that could than be manually adjusted to the personal needs. What do you think? Best Regards from California, Juergen Zitat von Philip Schuchardt <ohc@vt.edu>:
Errrr. I wish I could come...
Philip Schuchardt
On Tuesday 20 February 2007 9:00 am, Martin Budaj wrote:
I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening.
Martin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Quoting Juergen Bohnert <juergen.bohnert@uni-tuebingen.de>:
Anyway, I think it is time to say thank you for the wonderful program that you guys have created!
I think it is really a revolution in drafting of cave surveys!
Thanks a lot!
Therefore my question is: have you ever considered implementing a filter or even a standalone program that could import vector graphics from other CAD software?
Yes, but it was very low on the TODO list until now. But you are not the only one who is interested in it, so may be it is time to try something.
I understand that due to the special scrap structure and hierarchy of Therion maps this might not be an easy task but I feel that it might be doable by simply converting svg files (which can be easily generated by almost all CAD software available) to some sort of intermediate Therion format that could than be manually adjusted to the personal needs.
Well, I see solutions possible. 1. Create "File->Import" function in therion map editor, that will import vector drawing into map editor lines, points and area objects. I can imagine importing any text file (SVG or DXF). The only problem is, how to effectively organize this mess of lines and points after import. At least, there can be some simple import filter, that will assign correct line types/subtypes/options according to symbol XML tags in SVG or LAYER or other properties in DXF. But there will be definitely also needed some interface to manage multiple objects at one time in xtherion (multi selection or something like that). 2. Support importing of SVG or DXF directly into therion data structure using import command (with some filter, that will again assign correct options to therion objects). This solution will never produce perfect results, but may help... 3. Support for bitmaps in scraps. OK - it is not a vector graphics, but it will allow you to receive a complete map very fast, even your existing maps are in the "paper-only" form. And this is already more or less possible using scrap -sketch option. Well, I think we will soon (within a month) start working on #1 and #3. I am not sure about #2. Do you have some concrete project, where you would like to start? Do you have some concrete SVG files you would like to convert to therion? Or does anybody have another idea, how to solve this problem? Regards, S.
On 2007-02-21 14:29 +0100, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
I understand that due to the special scrap structure and hierarchy of Therion maps this might not be an easy task but I feel that it might be doable by simply converting svg files (which can be easily generated by almost all CAD software available) to some sort of intermediate Therion format that could than be manually adjusted to the personal needs.
Well, I see solutions possible.
1. Create "File->Import" function in therion map editor, that will import vector drawing into map editor lines, points and area objects. I can imagine importing any text file (SVG or DXF). The only problem is, how to effectively organize this mess of lines and points after import.
My suggestion would be some way to draw an outline round an area and say 'put all of this in one scrap'. That would not deal with overlapping passages, but would provide a basic level of allocation and grouping. It should probably also break lines in two at the edge of such areas. I imagine that drawings done in different packages by different people have very different ways of representing things, and some objects will be more complex than therion can represent (e.g. gradient fills?), so the results from coreldraw may be qwuite different from illustrator. But we have to start somewhere, so let's just try it. I can probably get samples in coreldraw, and designer and illustrator if you want to see what the structure of such files is like.
But there will be definitely also needed some interface to manage multiple objects at one time in xtherion (multi selection or something like that).
This would be useful in other contexts too. I often want to select several lines and change their type or scrap. This is currently easier using the text file than the editor.
2. Support importing of SVG or DXF directly into therion data structure using import command (with some filter, that will again assign correct options to therion objects). This solution will never produce perfect results, but may help...
Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://wookware.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Hi Stacho, personally I think converting svg files to th2 files might be the best way of doing it. Since assigning distinct Therion features to imported svg lines is difficult, I feel that probably the best way is to import only a single feature at a time by breaking down svg files into separate items e.g. one file for walls one for stations etc. - that could be done in a fashion that reflects the later scrap structure. This is easily done if the original map had several layers. By doing so you end up getting several uncalibrated th2 files that can be manually combined in a scrapwise manner. Then one could calibrate the th2-files similarly to the approach with the bitmap sketches by manually placing station markers. Another way would be to perform the calibration already at the level of transformation from svg to th2. No matter which way you want to go, even a simple und relatively unspecific svg-to-th2 converter would help a lot. The rest could be done manually - such a simple approach could save days or weeks of redrawing work when it comes to bigger systems. Also it could be used to import vectorized bitmap scans of older cave maps. I do have several svg files that I would like to convert and I can send you some samples. Also I do have shotline data in Wincompass format for almost all the cave maps so importing the shotline after the th2 conversion would be easy. Best Regards, Juergen Zitat von Stacho Mudrak <s.m@group-s.sk>:
Quoting Juergen Bohnert <juergen.bohnert@uni-tuebingen.de>:
Anyway, I think it is time to say thank you for the wonderful program that you guys have created!
I think it is really a revolution in drafting of cave surveys!
Thanks a lot!
Therefore my question is: have you ever considered implementing a filter or even a standalone program that could import vector graphics from other CAD software?
Yes, but it was very low on the TODO list until now. But you are not the only one who is interested in it, so may be it is time to try something.
I understand that due to the special scrap structure and hierarchy of Therion maps this might not be an easy task but I feel that it might be doable by simply converting svg files (which can be easily generated by almost all CAD software available) to some sort of intermediate Therion format that could than be manually adjusted to the personal needs.
Well, I see solutions possible.
1. Create "File->Import" function in therion map editor, that will import vector drawing into map editor lines, points and area objects. I can imagine importing any text file (SVG or DXF). The only problem is, how to effectively organize this mess of lines and points after import. At least, there can be some simple import filter, that will assign correct line types/subtypes/options according to symbol XML tags in SVG or LAYER or other properties in DXF. But there will be definitely also needed some interface to manage multiple objects at one time in xtherion (multi selection or something like that).
2. Support importing of SVG or DXF directly into therion data structure using import command (with some filter, that will again assign correct options to therion objects). This solution will never produce perfect results, but may help...
3. Support for bitmaps in scraps. OK - it is not a vector graphics, but it will allow you to receive a complete map very fast, even your existing maps are in the "paper-only" form. And this is already more or less possible using scrap -sketch option.
Well, I think we will soon (within a month) start working on #1 and #3. I am not sure about #2. Do you have some concrete project, where you would like to start? Do you have some concrete SVG files you would like to convert to therion? Or does anybody have another idea, how to solve this problem?
Regards, S.
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Quoting Juergen Bohnert <juergen.bohnert@uni-tuebingen.de>:
personally I think converting svg files to th2 files might be the best way of doing it. Since assigning distinct Therion features to imported svg lines is difficult, I feel that probably the best way is to import only a single feature at a time by breaking down svg files into separate items e.g. one file for walls one for stations etc. - that could be done in a fashion that reflects the later scrap structure. This is easily done if the original map had several layers.
Fine, I think writing Tcl script for this should not be a big issue, later it can be integrated into xtherion to support "File->Import" feature.
I do have several svg files that I would like to convert and I can send you some samples.
This would be great. Thanks, S.
On 2007-02-20 15:00 +0100, Martin Budaj wrote:
I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening.
I think this is a good idea. It is easy for me to come down. Will we have somewhere to power computers and preferably some interweb? Any other takers? Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://wookware.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Wolfgang Zillig a écrit :
On 2007-02-20 15:00 +0100, Martin Budaj wrote:
I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening.
I would like to come, but I have no time that weekend ;-((
Wolfgang _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Hi all, I won't be able to come to London on these days... unfortunately ! But... as you might know, at the end of August 2008, the European congress of Speleology will take place in the Vercors mountains. During this congress, there will be a session about "Karst Data Bases & Caves Inventories", and I will organize it (it's not yet written like this on the site, but it will soon be updated !). I think that we should organize a meeting during this event... We could make a general presentation to everybody (with some examples of work), and after that, organize a meeting between programmers, users, and newbies if there are some interested after our presentation... Any proposal welcome !! Thierry thierrygonon@mac.com
Martin Sluka a écrit :
What to make (or named it as) a "Workshop of Therion"?
m.
On 21.2.2007, at 16:56, thierrygonon wrote:
During this congress, there will be a session about "Karst Data Bases & Caves Inventories", and I will organize it
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
It would be a great idea, but in this case, we will need to know the needs... For example, do we need computers, and how many (or people interested brings their own computer) ? How many people (for the size of the room).... We will have our next meeting at the end of August, so we should have a detailed plan for that for this time, and this list could be a good place for discussion !! Thierry
On 2007-02-21 17:16 +0100, thierrygonon wrote:
Martin Sluka a écrit :
What to make (or named it as) a "Workshop of Therion"?
That is perhaps a little too specific. I would prefer a 'digital cave drawings' session so we can exchange ideas with people using other software and techniques.
On 21.2.2007, at 16:56, thierrygonon wrote:
During this congress, there will be a session about "Karst Data Bases & Caves Inventories", and I will organize it
I didn't know there was a euro spelo congress in the vercours, no. I would like to come if there is going to be a good surveying session. I have to see how my holidays are arranged to see if this is possible. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://wookware.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
Wookey a écrit :
On 2007-02-21 17:16 +0100, thierrygonon wrote:
Martin Sluka a écrit :
What to make (or named it as) a "Workshop of Therion"?
That is perhaps a little too specific. I would prefer a 'digital cave drawings' session so we can exchange ideas with people using other software and techniques.
On 21.2.2007, at 16:56, thierrygonon wrote:
During this congress, there will be a session about "Karst Data Bases & Caves Inventories", and I will organize it
I didn't know there was a euro spelo congress in the vercours, no. I would like to come if there is going to be a good surveying session. I have to see how my holidays are arranged to see if this is possible.
Wookey
I think that all together, we could make a very good surveying session : we have more than one year to prepare it !! Thierry
Quoting Wookey <wookey@aleph1.co.uk>:
That is perhaps a little too specific. I would prefer a 'digital cave drawings' session so we can exchange ideas with people using other software and techniques.
I would like to come also and as Wookey, I am also interested in more general "digital cave surveying" session. There are a lot of issues outside therion, I am interested in. E.g: + digital (laser) tools in cave surveying + cave surveying and GIS (CAD) systems (e.g. grass) + 3D animation tools and virtual reality + terrain models + data exchange formats + map publishing on the web + management of large and complicated cave surveys It would be great, if people working on these issues could present and discuss their work. Regards, S.
It looks there should be two kinds of such event: 1. an overall digital meeting for developers - as wrote Stacho 2. one or several workshops for users of one or different software solutions. Martin
Sorry Martin, are you now speaking of the London Meeting, or of the Vercors UIS Congress ? We should change the title of this thread. I guess it is Vercors you had in mind. So what I know for sure is that there is already one half day slot allocated for a survey, with at least people from Toporobot. In any case, we need to gather enough information on people interested to present something on the various subjects already mentionned, and provide the organizers with our requests, including: - number (and duration) of presentations - size of the planned attendance (= size of the room) - requested equipement: computers, videopro, walls or grids for expositions (linear ?) - etc Eric. Martin Sluka a écrit :
It looks there should be two kinds of such event:
1. an overall digital meeting for developers - as wrote Stacho
2. one or several workshops for users of one or different software solutions.
Martin _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Thierry, I already have contacted the Vercors 2008 organisers, in connection with Martin request, and ask for a therion session. There is another session on survey software.... Olivier Vidal answered that he had forwarded my request to (I cannot find this mail now, I think it was a Catherine something...), but I'm still waiting. But if you are member of the organisation, then of course you can do the Therion lobying better than me ! Eric. thierrygonon a écrit :
Martin Sluka a écrit :
What to make (or named it as) a "Workshop of Therion"?
m.
On 21.2.2007, at 16:56, thierrygonon wrote:
During this congress, there will be a session about "Karst Data Bases & Caves Inventories", and I will organize it
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
It would be a great idea, but in this case, we will need to know the needs... For example, do we need computers, and how many (or people interested brings their own computer) ? How many people (for the size of the room).... We will have our next meeting at the end of August, so we should have a detailed plan for that for this time, and this list could be a good place for discussion !!
Thierry
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Wookey wrote:
On 2007-02-20 15:00 +0100, Martin Budaj wrote:
I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening.
I think this is a good idea. It is easy for me to come down. Will we have somewhere to power computers and preferably some interweb?
Any other takers?
Yes. I think I'll be available then, and it's easy enough for me to get into London. John
On 2/21/07, Wookey <wookey@aleph1.co.uk> wrote:
On 2007-02-20 15:00 +0100, Martin Budaj wrote:
I'll stay in London on March 30 -- April 2. If anybody would like to discuss Therion and its future, we could arrange a meeting one evening.
I think this is a good idea. It is easy for me to come down. Will we have somewhere to power computers and preferably some interweb?
I am not sure about an exact meeting place -- some local pub could be an option. I suppose there should be power sockets there. I am not so sure about network connection. Martin
participants (10)
-
Eric Madelaine, INRIA -
John Pybus -
Juergen Bohnert -
Martin Budaj -
Martin Sluka -
Philip Schuchardt -
Stacho Mudrak -
thierrygonon -
Wolfgang Zillig -
Wookey