Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
Just following up on what I think is a serious problem with the 5.4.0 and 5.4.1 Windows Installers (as described below). I think the Windows installers should be taken offline until they can cleanly install in all likely situations. Either that all provide explicit information on the download page as to the limitations and how to fix the problems the installers are likely to cause. Bruce From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Bruce Mutton via Therion Sent: Tuesday, 30 May 2017 8:48 PM To: 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk> Cc: Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz> Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs Thanks Vladimir I seem to have got through all that successfully. I will stick to “all users” Therion installs from now on, as that puts the files in a location where I am used to looking for them. If the installer ever handles uninstalls, then the .ini files should be preserved. Bruce From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of ???????? ???????? via Therion Sent: Tuesday, 30 May 2017 6:59 AM To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > Cc: Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com <mailto:vld.georgiev@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs Bruce This is likely because the "Install for all users" uses a location in Program Files, while "Current user" uses a location in the users AppData folder. The former requires admin privileges, and the later can be used by a limited user. Older installer versions used Program files by default, and the new files would always overwrite the older ones. But if you had an older version in Program Files, and installed the new one for the current user in his AppData folder, you would end up with two sets of files. And with conflicting file type associations. You could try uninstalling and manually deleting the Therion install folder. Cleaning the registry entries requires using Registry Editor and deleting a set of keys, if you are comfortable doing that. The keys are these (after the text "Subkey". HKLM is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and HKCU is HKEY_CURRENT_USER) https://github.com/therion/therion-batteries/blob/master/therion.iss#L60-L10... I suppose a better solution would be if I can make the installer uninstall any previous version before installing. This should prevent such an issue. Vladimir On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Bruce Mutton via Therion <therion@speleo.sk <mailto:therion@speleo.sk> > wrote: Things are getting weirder. Usually I have just installed one version of Therion over top of whatever version I have installed, but wonder if this might be contributing to issues I have here. After I have installed 5.4.1 over top of 5.4.0… If I open a thconfig file, with Help About I get 5.4.1 reported, as below If I then open a .th2 drawing file, I get 5.4.0 reported, as below So with two instances of XTherion open at the same time, each is reporting a different version. Same thing happens installing 5.4.1 88c8a06 over top of 5.4.1. The drawing editor still reports 5.4.0 Perhaps a harmless bug/omission or something odd with the installer? Initial drawing suggests the drawing editor is behaving like 5.4.1 (triangular survey stations). Bruce
About the installer problems... Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though. 2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files. In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder. Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful? Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer? Vladimir On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Bruce Mutton via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Just following up on what I think is a serious problem with the 5.4.0 and 5.4.1 Windows Installers (as described below).
I think the Windows installers should be taken offline until they can cleanly install in all likely situations. Either that all provide explicit information on the download page as to the limitations and how to fix the problems the installers are likely to cause.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *Bruce Mutton via Therion *Sent:* Tuesday, 30 May 2017 8:48 PM *To:* 'List for Therion users' <therion@speleo.sk> *Cc:* Bruce Mutton <bruce@tomo.co.nz> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
Thanks Vladimir
I seem to have got through all that successfully.
I will stick to “all users” Therion installs from now on, as that puts the files in a location where I am used to looking for them.
If the installer ever handles uninstalls, then the .ini files should be preserved.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk <therion-bounces@speleo.sk>] *On Behalf Of *???????? ???????? via Therion *Sent:* Tuesday, 30 May 2017 6:59 AM *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> *Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
Bruce
This is likely because the "Install for all users" uses a location in Program Files, while "Current user" uses a location in the users AppData folder. The former requires admin privileges, and the later can be used by a limited user.
Older installer versions used Program files by default, and the new files would always overwrite the older ones. But if you had an older version in Program Files, and installed the new one for the current user in his AppData folder, you would end up with two sets of files. And with conflicting file type associations.
You could try uninstalling and manually deleting the Therion install folder. Cleaning the registry entries requires using Registry Editor and deleting a set of keys, if you are comfortable doing that. The keys are these (after the text "Subkey". HKLM is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and HKCU is HKEY_CURRENT_USER) https://github.com/therion/therion-batteries/blob/master/ therion.iss#L60-L104
I suppose a better solution would be if I can make the installer uninstall any previous version before installing. This should prevent such an issue.
Vladimir
On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 1:12 PM, Bruce Mutton via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Things are getting weirder.
Usually I have just installed one version of Therion over top of whatever version I have installed, but wonder if this might be contributing to issues I have here.
After I have installed 5.4.1 over top of 5.4.0…
If I open a thconfig file, with Help About I get 5.4.1 reported, as below
If I then open a .th2 drawing file, I get 5.4.0 reported, as below
So with two instances of XTherion open at the same time, each is reporting a different version.
Same thing happens installing 5.4.1 88c8a06 over top of 5.4.1. The drawing editor still reports 5.4.0
Perhaps a harmless bug/omission or something odd with the installer?
Initial drawing suggests the drawing editor is behaving like 5.4.1 (triangular survey stations).
Bruce
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
It is outside of my area of expertise, however: * No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. * No 2 is OK by me. I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make Therion workflow ‘comfortable’. Bruce From: Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of ???????? ???????? via Therion Sent: Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Cc: Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs About the installer problems... Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though. 2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files. In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder. Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful? Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer? Vladimir
Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on each page to accept the default install under Program Files. Footleg On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. - No 2 is OK by me.
I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *???????? ???????? via Therion *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
*To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
*Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
About the installer problems...
Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though.
2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder.
Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
Vladimir _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Yes, the location is flexible. I think it was that way in the old installer too. But there are also global Start menu shortcuts and registry entries that go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. For those the installer needs admin rights. If it doesn't have them, it comes down again to the All users vs Current user problem. Vlad On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on each page to accept the default install under Program Files.
Footleg
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. - No 2 is OK by me.
I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *???????? ???????? via Therion *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
*To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
*Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
About the installer problems...
Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though.
2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder.
Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
Vladimir _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
I have yet to meet a Therion user who knows another Therion user who they share a computer with. So I would be happy with install for Current user only. Footleg On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:15 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Yes, the location is flexible. I think it was that way in the old installer too. But there are also global Start menu shortcuts and registry entries that go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. For those the installer needs admin rights. If it doesn't have them, it comes down again to the All users vs Current user problem.
Vlad
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on each page to accept the default install under Program Files.
Footleg
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. - No 2 is OK by me.
I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *???????? ???????? via Therion *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
*To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
*Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
About the installer problems...
Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though.
2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder.
Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
Vladimir _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
I got your idea :) That means making the installer non-admin only, so it will always install the shortcuts and registry entries for the Current user only. And the default suggested install location will be in the user's AppData folder, not in Program files. The theoretical Therion user who shares a computer with another Therion user will have to install their own copy :) Vlad On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
I have yet to meet a Therion user who knows another Therion user who they share a computer with. So I would be happy with install for Current user only.
Footleg
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:15 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Yes, the location is flexible. I think it was that way in the old installer too. But there are also global Start menu shortcuts and registry entries that go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. For those the installer needs admin rights. If it doesn't have them, it comes down again to the All users vs Current user problem.
Vlad
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on each page to accept the default install under Program Files.
Footleg
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. - No 2 is OK by me.
I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *???????? ???????? via Therion *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
*To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
*Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
About the installer problems...
Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though.
2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder.
Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
Vladimir _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
Hi all, any news about installer without admin rights? For my it would be very handy because i use sometimes company pc without admin... S pozdravom Ing. Michal Danko On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
I got your idea :) That means making the installer non-admin only, so it will always install the shortcuts and registry entries for the Current user only. And the default suggested install location will be in the user's AppData folder, not in Program files.
The theoretical Therion user who shares a computer with another Therion user will have to install their own copy :)
Vlad
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:49 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
I have yet to meet a Therion user who knows another Therion user who they share a computer with. So I would be happy with install for Current user only.
Footleg
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 1:15 PM Владимир Георгиев via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Yes, the location is flexible. I think it was that way in the old installer too. But there are also global Start menu shortcuts and registry entries that go into HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE. For those the installer needs admin rights. If it doesn't have them, it comes down again to the All users vs Current user problem.
Vlad
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 3:08 PM, Footleg via Therion <therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
Usually a Windows application installer offers the option to install to a location of the users choosing. If this was done then users wanting to install without admin privileges could choose a location they have write permissions for. Otherwise users can choose to just click through 'Next' on each page to accept the default install under Program Files.
Footleg
On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 9:28 AM Bruce Mutton via Therion < therion@speleo.sk> wrote:
It is outside of my area of expertise, however:
- No 1 seems dangerous, at the whim of future MS updates and there are bound to be people with non-standard setups, or very old Windows versions, any of which might break something that tries to be too clever. - No 2 is OK by me.
I don’t think I would use a ‘non-installed’ version. The installer is compact, quick, easy and has proved versatile and reliable over at least 10 years. I rely on file associations heavily, to tweak my system to make Therion workflow ‘comfortable’.
Bruce
*From:* Therion [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] *On Behalf Of *???????? ???????? via Therion *Sent:* Monday, 17 July 2017 7:55 PM
*To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk>
*Cc:* Владимир Георгиев <vld.georgiev@gmail.com> *Subject:* Re: [Therion] Therion] Therion 5.4.1 Windows Installer incomplete installs
About the installer problems...
Since I did the installer changes, here is that comes to mind: 1) I could try to make it more intelligent and to detect if there is an existing install location (all users or current user) and to install in the same one without the "All/Current user" prompt. This will probably not prevent all possible problems though.
2) Another solution would be to revert those changes and keep only the "All users" option, which requires admin privileges. This is how the older installers worked and always installed in Program Files.
In addition to that, there could be a portable edition of Therion, which is distributed as a ZIP file and the user would only need to extract it in a folder. There would be no association to the TH, TH2 and THCONFIG file extensions of course. Currently the code reads the install location from the Win registry, but it could be made to search for files in the current folder.
Does anyone have an opinion on what would be most useful?
Would you use the portable option, or the "Current user" installer?
Vladimir _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion
participants (4)
-
Bruce Mutton -
Footleg -
Michal Danko -
Владимир Георгиев