Hi After some playing with Therion, I'm quite happy... Now I'm considering to translate it to spanish... Question is: in the texts_es.txt file should I do therion: point station:temporary es: punto estacion:temporal (i e translating all words) or therion: point station:temporary es: point estacion:temporal Cheers Roman
After some playing with Therion, I'm quite happy... Now I'm considering to translate it to spanish... Question is: in the texts_es.txt file should I do
therion: point station:temporary es: punto estacion:temporal
(i e translating all words) or
therion: point station:temporary es: point estacion:temporal
The names like "point station:temporary" are internal Therion identifiers which shouldn't be translated literally. The best way is to export also english translation (perl process.pl export en) to see how these identifiers were translated into English, e.g. therion: point station:temporary en: temporary survey station and take the 'en:' lines as the basis for translation. M.
On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 07:43:08 +0100 (CET) "Martin Budaj" <m.b@speleo.sk> wrote:
The names like "point station:temporary" are internal Therion identifiers which shouldn't be translated literally. The best way is to export also english translation (perl process.pl export en)
OK, I exported the fr file too. Both helped me, but still there are some doubts. What is ... underlying wall (a hidden wall under i.e. clay?) floor-step (I guess this is a little climb in our way across the cave) ceiling-step (I surrender here because I can't walk on the ceiling) soda-straw (thin hollow stalactite looking like italian food?) flute (the same thin hollow stalactite?) raft (I was guessing this is a rubber boat but fr version doesn't) raft-cone (whooaa!) sump (I think it is a pit with water, but fr calls it siphon) My Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionaty don't helped me... Regards, Roman
underlying wall (a hidden wall under i.e. clay?)
In some cases, you
floor-step (I guess this is a little climb in our way across the cave)
Yes. You do not need equipement for it.
ceiling-step (I surrender here because I can't walk on the ceiling)
Ceiling step is for example something, you are afraid off, if you do not wear helmet. There are two floor and ceiling equivalents: pit/floor-step - chimney/ceiling-step.
soda-straw (thin hollow stalactite looking like italian food?)
Yes. Thin, long with hole inside.
flute (the same thin hollow stalactite?)
If I am correct, it is a special kind of erosion formation. See UIS cave signatures at http://www.carto.net/cgi-neumann/cave_symbol.pl
raft (I was guessing this is a rubber boat but fr version doesn't) raft-cone (whooaa!)
Mike Lake once wrote: A raft is as you thought, calcite rafts floating on water. When these are disturbed the calcite rafts sink and can build up on the bottom of the pool as 'conical' shaped piles. The pool can dry up and the raft cones will be left. Thus they are different to rafts and so have a different symbol. Yes they are not common but they are not rare.
sump (I think it is a pit with water, but fr calls it siphon)
Yes, it is passage completely filled with water (also in Slovakia we call it sifon). Regards, S.
At 11:31 +0100 20.1.2005, Stacho Mudrak wrote: *******************************************
ceiling-step (I surrender here because I can't walk on the ceiling)
Ceiling step is for example something, you are afraid off, if you do not wear helmet. There are two floor and ceiling equivalents: pit/floor-step - chimney/ceiling-step.
The ommiting of ceiling morphology is the most common error you may see on maps of caves. There are plenty of on first look "very nice" cave maps, with detailed morphology of floor, color sediments, blue water, ... , but without any information of ceiling morphology. The cave surveyors are able to discus hours and hours about precision of measurement with particular tools, but such a cave map as I described before, measured with total laser station, is 50 % not true. Because there are not half of informations. My 0.02 EUR Martin --
OK, thanks May be you would get the texts_es.txt file? Also, may be I could send a translated thbook_es.pdf (perhaps next month or so). I don't promise but it is now in my TODO list because my caving friends don't worrry too much about learning english... Regards, Roman
May be you would get the texts_es.txt file?
Of course we'll include it in the main distribution.
Also, may be I could send a translated thbook_es.pdf (perhaps next month or so). I don't promise but it is now in my TODO list because my caving friends don't worrry too much about learning english...
That would be really great! Suggestions for FAQ or tutorial are also welcome. Cheers, Martin
Just a question. What caving software is commonly used in Spain? I am preparing a list of softaware, that I would like to be supported via new import command. It allows people to draw maps without boring and complicated conversion of centerline data. Regards, S. Roman Muñoz wrote:
OK, thanks
May be you would get the texts_es.txt file? Also, may be I could send a translated thbook_es.pdf (perhaps next month or so). I don't promise but it is now in my TODO list because my caving friends don't worrry too much about learning english...
Regards, Roman
At 22:23 +0100 20.1.2005, Roman =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Mu=F1oz?= wrote: *******************************************
OK, thanks
May be you would get the texts_es.txt file? Also, may be I could send a translated thbook_es.pdf (perhaps next month or so). I don't promise but it is now in my TODO list because my caving friends don't worrry too much about learning english...
Regards, Roman
Maybe there is time to add Spanish section to wiki.speleo.sk/therion, isn't it. MartinS. --
Sorry, I did not finished this sentence in previous mail :) Stacho Mudrak wrote:
underlying wall (a hidden wall under i.e. clay?)
In some cases, you
underlying wall is used, when you do not wish to draw underlying passage in separate scrap. We used it for small passages under large blocks or something like that. Regards, S.
Hi Roman Roman Muńoz napsal(a):
May be you would get the texts_es.txt file? Also, may be I could send a translated thbook_es.pdf (perhaps next month or so). I don't promise but it is now in my TODO list because my caving friends don't worrry too much about learning english...
I created for you Spanish Therion book section on Wiki pages - http://wiki.speleo.cz/therion/doku.php?id=therion:therionbook ... We started on the same place also czechoslovak translation... Lada Blazek
+++ Roman Muñoz [05-01-20 02:12 +0100]:
Hi
After some playing with Therion, I'm quite happy... Now I'm considering to translate it to spanish... Question is: in the texts_es.txt file should I do
Does therion use simple .txt files for translations? It occurs to me that if we are going to get into translations (and it's obviously a good thing) that it might be better to use the standard .po file mechanism for this. I don't know much about how it works but it seems to be used a lot and I assume it deals sensibly with things like character set problems? And we must get some standard tools to use etc. Just a suggestion. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
Wookey wrote:
Does therion use simple .txt files for translations?
No. Text files are only sources. In the compilation, they comes a part of binary executable. Not efficient, but very simple and reliable.
It occurs to me that if we are going to get into translations (and it's obviously a good thing) that it might be better to use the standard .po file mechanism for this. I don't know much about how it works but it seems to be used a lot and I assume it deals sensibly with things like character set problems? And we must get some standard tools to use etc.
Well - my experience is, it does not a good job. All the programs I have been using in Slovak (including survex), were doing problems. I encountered problems with missing .po files (especially under Windows I had to set up environment variables) and missing or wrongly substituted characters. Well, in the future, we will certainly switch to .po files (we are forced to use them by WX in new model viewer), but now it would only slow down developement of more needed things. S.
On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 01:05:46PM +0100, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
Well - my experience is, it does not a good job. All the programs I have been using in Slovak (including survex), were doing problems. I encountered problems with missing .po files (especially under Windows I had to set up environment variables) and missing or wrongly substituted characters.
Survex doesn't use .po files - it has its own i18n system (it was written before GNU gettext was!) There are a few .po files in the install, but they're from wxWindows. What are these problems with Survex and Slovak? I don't recall anyone reporting them to me... Cheers, Olly
Olly Betts wrote:
What are these problems with Survex and Slovak? I don't recall anyone reporting them to me...
When I wanted to use cavern without survex installation - missing translation files. And in the old versions of survex, there were missing characters. But in the recent versions, characters are OK, but punctation is missing also for ISO8859-1 characters. But it is only only a cosmetic error, I can live with it. May be on Slovak version of windows, it is OK, but on my english one, it is not. On linux I do not know - I am not able to compile aven with configuration of wx I am using. If you are interested, I can send you log file sometimes. Regards, S.
Olly Betts wrote:
On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 01:05:46PM +0100, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
Well - my experience is, it does not a good job. All the programs I have been using in Slovak (including survex), were doing problems. I encountered problems with missing .po files (especially under Windows I had to set up environment variables) and missing or wrongly substituted characters.
Survex doesn't use .po files - it has its own i18n system (it was written before GNU gettext was!) There are a few .po files in the install, but they're from wxWindows.
What are these problems with Survex and Slovak? I don't recall anyone reporting them to me...
I get all Slovak characters unaccented in Aven 1.0.33 on Windows 2000. My experience is that wxWidgets in Unicode build work fine with .mo (compiled .po) files in utf-8 encoding, even for non-latin alphabets. Martin
I think Visual Topo is, by far, the more widely used one, at least by young people. My friends are using it, and there are caving groups from other regions who have translated Visual Topo's manual, etc. Those people would be very interested in getting their LRUD data in any software to change to. Toporobot was my election, because I was mac-based some years ago. But it wouldn't surprise me if I were the only one in Spain ;-) Really I know about only one caving group using (allegedly) toporobot, but yet I haven't see any toporobot survey not made by me. There are some older people still working with spreadsheets and AutoCAD. Those are not used to take LRUD data. In our group, for high grade surveys, working with total stations is not rare, at least on mines. We have quite a lot of roman mines who are being explored and surveyed. Government is very interested in getting some of them open to public. In this case my friends take a lot of... radiated points? they can't lose. These data goes finally into AutoCAD too. But wide use of survey software is less than 10 years old here (perhaps 5) so 80-90% of surveys are drawn on paper and centreline data is losed... this is one of the reasons making therion so interesting. Best regards, Roman On Fri, 21 Jan 2005 09:36:56 +0100 Stacho Mudrak <s.m@speleo.sk> wrote:
Just a question. What caving software is commonly used in Spain?
On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 01:21:06PM +0100, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
Olly Betts wrote:
What are these problems with Survex and Slovak? I don't recall anyone reporting them to me...
When I wanted to use cavern without survex installation - missing translation files.
Normally you just install survex, so it's not something that I've ever seen the need to worry about. In the past it was important not to bloat the code with compiled in English messages and then load (say) Slovak ones in from disk. Back in the DOS 640K days, that could mean you couldn't process your cave system! That's not really such an issue now - 10K of messages is irrelevant when 128M of RAM is low end. But if the code works, why spend time and effort replacing it? It risks introducing bugs into a stable package. So as I've said before, if you want to install cavern alone, you'll need to fiddle a bit - either install the translation files somewhere they can be found using the default search rules in message.c, or modify the sources to look for them where you want, or even to compile the translations in.
And in the old versions of survex, there were missing characters. But in the recent versions, characters are OK, but punctation is missing also for ISO8859-1 characters.
I take it you mean missing accents? What codepage are you using? 1252 (Microsoft's tweaked version of iso-8859-1) is handled, but 1250 (MS's version of iso-8859-2) isn't (it's just a missing line of code so easy to fix). So if you're using codepage 1250, this'll be fixed in the next release. If not, let me know what you are using, and I'll see what's going wrong.
On linux I do not know - I am not able to compile aven with configuration of wx I am using. If you are interested, I can send you log file sometimes.
Aven won't build with a unicode build of wxWindows. My feeling is that the changes required are too invasive for Survex 1.0.X, especially since nobody has shown real interest in producing a wide character translation yet. If Aven won't build with a non-unicode of wx, let me know where it fails. Cheers, Olly
On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 04:26:09PM +0000, Olly Betts wrote:
On Fri, Jan 21, 2005 at 01:21:06PM +0100, Stacho Mudrak wrote:
And in the old versions of survex, there were missing characters. But in the recent versions, characters are OK, but punctation is missing also for ISO8859-1 characters.
So if you're using codepage 1250, this'll be fixed in the next release.
OK, Survex 1.0.34 (just released) should fix this, but I'm unable to check it myself. Can you check and confirm (or deny) that it's fixed? Cheers, Olly
Olly Betts wrote:
And in the old versions of survex, there were missing characters. But in the recent versions, characters are OK, but punctation is missing also for ISO8859-1 characters.
So if you're using codepage 1250, this'll be fixed in the next release.
OK, Survex 1.0.34 (just released) should fix this, but I'm unable to check it myself. Can you check and confirm (or deny) that it's fixed?
Now all characters are displayed correctly with accents. Only few strings remain untranslated (Help, Export as..., Exit), but that's other issue. Cheers, Martin
participants (7)
-
Ladislav Blazek -
Martin Budaj -
Martin Sluka -
Olly Betts -
Roman Muñoz -
Stacho Mudrak -
Wookey