Re: [Therion] new Therion?
Hey, I'm the primary developer for Cavewhere. I though I would chime in. Cavewhere is open source, under the GPL, although I think I need to actually upload that bit (tonight). It's currently on github, as mentioned on a previous post. It currently runs under, Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu Linux. Since most linux users are complete computers nerds, they get the fun job of compiling it themselves. Although my friend, Jon L is creating a debian installer. I need to check with him on the status of that. Cavewhere only currently produces centerlines from survex and compass imports. We do have plans to generate walls from LRUDs. It's just not a high priority because 5 other software projects (survex, compass, walls, breakout, therion) already do it. I do have 5km cave in therion that I'll probably want to imported into cavewhere some day. That feature isn't really on the horizon. I'll probably never support therion as a backend because it's simply to much work and there are better painting libraries out there. That being said there's no painting capabilities in Cavewhere. This could be added in the future since Qt support a very powerful painting engine call QGraphicsScene. Currently we're more focused on creating quick working maps from sketches. We're in the process of converting Cavewhere's sqlite / protobuf (binary format) into human readable json format call Metacave (https://github.com/jedwards1211/metacave). This will allow cavewhere files to play nicely with version control and humans... @Martin, I'm not sure why Cavewhere is a US only app? I've used on China expos ;). If any of you have some helpful hints you can post them on cavewhere's bug tracker or email me directly. Also I apologize in advance for fragmenting the cave software space even more! This is just a fun side project of mine, and you don't have to use it. BTW, we do use survex for loop closure, so no worries there. :D Wahoo! Phi|ip
Phil, as I may say, with help of right button of mouse (contextual menus) in therion map editor I’m 10 times faster as you in cavewhere in video. Any other format for data than plain ASCII is not acceptable for me. Simple reason is 90 percent of experiences in Therion is to look for errors (or bugs). Without ASCII text, simple search and replace, it is unreal. All examples I saw, all maps I saw on NSS forum are simple caves. But my experiences are mazes, labyrinths, where the logical surveyors thinking and small scraps principle is the base. To construct cave map from scraps in correct way that 3D model will be real and without any strange relicts is a goal. There is an idea to add to Therion generation of models based on splay shots. There are simple things based on VTK export from Loch, but very promising, now. You are expert in OpenGL. As I saw, there is quite easy to imagine 3D editor for much better documentation of caves and generation of maps from such data. 3D model using splay shots, divided to two half-scraps (ceiling and floor) with possibility to interactive add details is my dream. But I’m too old, Stacho and Martin are too busy. And if you’ll document cave on Mars in NSS way it will be NSS way. But there are other cavers on Earth using different techniques, different habits. To coerce them to change their way of mapping or to recalculate their data before they may use the software is not the best idea. That’s all. m.s.
18. 12. 2015 v 19:44, Philip Schuchardt <vpicaver@gmail.com>:
Hey, I'm the primary developer for Cavewhere. I though I would chime in.
Cavewhere is open source, under the GPL, although I think I need to actually upload that bit (tonight). It's currently on github, as mentioned on a previous post. It currently runs under, Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu Linux. Since most linux users are complete computers nerds, they get the fun job of compiling it themselves. Although my friend, Jon L is creating a debian installer. I need to check with him on the status of that.
Cavewhere only currently produces centerlines from survex and compass imports. We do have plans to generate walls from LRUDs. It's just not a high priority because 5 other software projects (survex, compass, walls, breakout, therion) already do it.
I do have 5km cave in therion that I'll probably want to imported into cavewhere some day. That feature isn't really on the horizon. I'll probably never support therion as a backend because it's simply to much work and there are better painting libraries out there. That being said there's no painting capabilities in Cavewhere. This could be added in the future since Qt support a very powerful painting engine call QGraphicsScene. Currently we're more focused on creating quick working maps from sketches.
We're in the process of converting Cavewhere's sqlite / protobuf (binary format) into human readable json format call Metacave (https://github.com/jedwards1211/metacave). This will allow cavewhere files to play nicely with version control and humans...
@Martin, I'm not sure why Cavewhere is a US only app? I've used on China expos ;). If any of you have some helpful hints you can post them on cavewhere's bug tracker or email me directly.
Also I apologize in advance for fragmenting the cave software space even more! This is just a fun side project of mine, and you don't have to use it. BTW, we do use survex for loop closure, so no worries there. :D
Wahoo! Phi|ip _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
It's been a while since I've used therion map editor (7 or 8 years). I'll have to re-check it out. From my memory, it was to slow to create working maps. For example using cavewhere on the last 3 week expedition, I was able to create working cave maps on the same day as the survey. I even did it on small 8" windows tablet. It was great because we had working maps to use on the very next day. I'm not talking small cave either. We probably map around ~10km per expo. I guess I'm confused about how "NSS way" differs from other cave survey. Specifically, what am I missing? Are you talking about digital survey with TopoDroid or PocketTopo? Phi|ip On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 2:52 PM, Martin Sluka <martinsluka@mac.com> wrote:
Phil,
as I may say, with help of right button of mouse (contextual menus) in therion map editor I’m 10 times faster as you in cavewhere in video.
Any other format for data than plain ASCII is not acceptable for me. Simple reason is 90 percent of experiences in Therion is to look for errors (or bugs). Without ASCII text, simple search and replace, it is unreal. All examples I saw, all maps I saw on NSS forum are simple caves. But my experiences are mazes, labyrinths, where the logical surveyors thinking and small scraps principle is the base. To construct cave map from scraps in correct way that 3D model will be real and without any strange relicts is a goal.
There is an idea to add to Therion generation of models based on splay shots. There are simple things based on VTK export from Loch, but very promising, now.
You are expert in OpenGL. As I saw, there is quite easy to imagine 3D editor for much better documentation of caves and generation of maps from such data. 3D model using splay shots, divided to two half-scraps (ceiling and floor) with possibility to interactive add details is my dream.
But I’m too old, Stacho and Martin are too busy.
And if you’ll document cave on Mars in NSS way it will be NSS way. But there are other cavers on Earth using different techniques, different habits. To coerce them to change their way of mapping or to recalculate their data before they may use the software is not the best idea.
That’s all.
m.s.
18. 12. 2015 v 19:44, Philip Schuchardt <vpicaver@gmail.com>:
Hey, I'm the primary developer for Cavewhere. I though I would chime in.
Cavewhere is open source, under the GPL, although I think I need to actually upload that bit (tonight). It's currently on github, as mentioned on a previous post. It currently runs under, Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu Linux. Since most linux users are complete computers nerds, they get the fun job of compiling it themselves. Although my friend, Jon L is creating a debian installer. I need to check with him on the status of that.
Cavewhere only currently produces centerlines from survex and compass imports. We do have plans to generate walls from LRUDs. It's just not a high priority because 5 other software projects (survex, compass, walls, breakout, therion) already do it.
I do have 5km cave in therion that I'll probably want to imported into cavewhere some day. That feature isn't really on the horizon. I'll probably never support therion as a backend because it's simply to much work and there are better painting libraries out there. That being said there's no painting capabilities in Cavewhere. This could be added in the future since Qt support a very powerful painting engine call QGraphicsScene. Currently we're more focused on creating quick working maps from sketches.
We're in the process of converting Cavewhere's sqlite / protobuf (binary format) into human readable json format call Metacave (https://github.com/jedwards1211/metacave). This will allow cavewhere files to play nicely with version control and humans...
@Martin, I'm not sure why Cavewhere is a US only app? I've used on China expos ;). If any of you have some helpful hints you can post them on cavewhere's bug tracker or email me directly.
Also I apologize in advance for fragmenting the cave software space even more! This is just a fun side project of mine, and you don't have to use it. BTW, we do use survex for loop closure, so no worries there. :D
Wahoo! Phi|ip _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
18. 12. 2015 v 21:13, Philip Schuchardt <vpicaver@gmail.com>:
It's been a while since I've used therion map editor (7 or 8 years). I'll have to re-check it out. From my memory, it was to slow to create working maps. For example using cavewhere on the last 3 week expedition, I was able to create working cave maps on the same day as the survey. I even did it on small 8" windows tablet. It was great because we had working maps to use on the very next day. I'm not talking small cave either. We probably map around ~10km per expo.
It was and it is. So nobody use it in cave. But imagine you survey enough splay shots they define the space around a station and you’ll receive automatically contours of passage let’s say projected to horizontal and vertical plain (map and profile (+cross-section)). Another splay shot will define exact position of an object, etc, etc. Is this concept usable in cave? I think with OpenGL and power of recent ruggedized tablets yes, it should be. PocketTopo is super, because you have working map immediately. More: you may use simple export from PocketTopo or better TopParser and import your day work to Survex or better Therion and connect all daily surveys of all teams together. And more: if you synchronize PocketTopo data on all PDAs or tablets of all teams they all should have identical working map next day. If you open (or create new, save it and reopen) a file in PocketTopo, it will load all other data files which are in particular folder too. But only that first one will be editable. TopoDroid is to much complicated for me.
I guess I'm confused about how "NSS way" differs from other cave survey. Specifically, what am I missing? Are you talking about digital survey with TopoDroid or PocketTopo?
No, mostly the order od data you survey etc. Simply surveying habit. It is different in different parts of Earth and different teams. 7-8 years is veeery long time in life of a software ;) Martin
PocketTopo - I think only serious problem is stations numbering convention following Toporobot’s principles. m.s.
+++ Philip Schuchardt [2015-12-18 13:44 -0500]:
Hey, I'm the primary developer for Cavewhere. I though I would chime in.
Cavewhere is open source, under the GPL, although I think I need to actually upload that bit (tonight). It's currently on github, as mentioned on a previous post. It currently runs under, Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu Linux. Since most linux users are complete computers nerds, they get the fun job of compiling it themselves. Although my friend, Jon L is creating a debian installer. I need to check with him on the status of that.
I'm happy to help with Debian packaging, or sponsoring as I currently package most of the available cave software tools for Debian. (I'm also happy for someone else to do it :-) Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/
Cool! That should great! On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 6:25 PM, Wookey <wookey@wookware.org> wrote:
+++ Philip Schuchardt [2015-12-18 13:44 -0500]:
Hey, I'm the primary developer for Cavewhere. I though I would chime in.
Cavewhere is open source, under the GPL, although I think I need to actually upload that bit (tonight). It's currently on github, as mentioned on a previous post. It currently runs under, Windows, Mac, and Ubuntu Linux. Since most linux users are complete computers nerds, they get the fun job of compiling it themselves. Although my friend, Jon L is creating a debian installer. I need to check with him on the status of that.
I'm happy to help with Debian packaging, or sponsoring as I currently package most of the available cave software tools for Debian. (I'm also happy for someone else to do it :-)
Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Debian, Wookware, ARM http://wookware.org/
participants (3)
-
Martin Sluka -
Philip Schuchardt -
Wookey