Thanks, Laura I shall do that. Graham -- graham.mullan@coly.org.uk 0117 9502556 or 07887 637064 (or 0844 2327803) On 14/06/2012 11:00, therion-request@speleo.sk wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK Cave Surveying Group (Footleg) 2. Re: Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK Cave Surveying Group (Andrew Atkinson) 3. Missing data (Graham Mullan) 4. Re: Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK CaveSurveying Group (Bruce) 5. Re: Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK Cave Surveying Group (Sluka Martin) 6. Re: Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK CaveSurveying Group (Bruce) 7. Re: Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK CaveSurveying Group (Andrew Atkinson)
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Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:33:41 +0100 From: Footleg<drfootleg@gmail.com> Subject: [Therion] Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK Cave Surveying Group To: List for Therion users<therion@speleo.sk> Message-ID: <CAJkGg4kJPBPrzb1MsFjZK3_PR2d66pBxEqhsvFKuFgJkSVemBg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Over the past couple of years the UK based Cave Surveying Group (CSG) have run a number of training courses to teach DistoX Paperless surveying and drawing up with Therion. I have now written the first draft of a training guide based on the data gathered on one of these courses. The CSG also have a new website where we are starting to publish online. The CSG homepage is http://cp.cavesurveying.org.uk/
The training course and example data can be found here: http://cp.cavesurveying.org.uk/index.php/articles/3-therion-tutorial
I would welcome any feedback on the content of the tutorial as it is an on going project to improve the content to cover more features of Therion, and to correct any mistakes in the parts I have written so far.
Perhaps someone with wiki editing permissions could add a link to this training material to the therion wiki too?
Footleg
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Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:45:35 +0100 From: Andrew Atkinson<andrew@wotcc.org.uk> Subject: Re: [Therion] Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK Cave Surveying Group To: List for Therion users<therion@speleo.sk> Message-ID:<4FD8997F.5070707@wotcc.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 13/06/12 14:33, Footleg wrote:
Perhaps someone with wiki editing permissions could add a link to this training material to the therion wiki too?
Done http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=start
Andrew
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Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:46:15 +0100 From: Graham Mullan<graham.mullan@coly.org.uk> Subject: [Therion] Missing data To: List for Therion users<therion@speleo.sk> Message-ID:<4FD8D1E7.1020604@coly.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I am still dealing with a lot of legacy data from the 1950s and 1960s where clinos were not used.
Using Survex this is not a problem, as I just enter the data after a line:
data normal from to compass tape ignoreall
and the program will run.
In Therion, however, the same circumstance gives the error message:
-- not all data for given style
This is a problem as it would require me to enter a series of zeros, which does not equate to reality. In some caves, the altitudes are constrained by the use of fixed points, at multiple entrances, which allows for this data lack. In Therion I am not so sure how this will work.
Graham
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Message: 4 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 08:37:26 +1200 From: Bruce<bruce@tomo.co.nz> Subject: Re: [Therion] Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK CaveSurveying Group To: 'List for Therion users'<therion@speleo.sk> Message-ID:<D0F99E94D4644C859AFFE5EFCC49CECE@JUICEBRAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
That is looking great Footleg. Clear and concise documentation with non-essential stuff stripped away. Fantastic!
It should be placed above my similar entry on the Therion wiki page, and not below!
A minor quibble.
"Note that the team members names are only allowed to contain one space character, so use hyphens for double barrelled names or your project will generate an error when you try to compile it."
From the Therion Book " person ? a person?s first name and surname separated by whitespace characters. Use ?/? to separate first name and surname if there are more names."
So perhaps rephrase to
"Note that the team members names are only allowed to contain one space character. You can use a forward-space character, /, to emulate the second and subsequent spaces in a name. If you don't, your project will generate an error when you try to compile it."
I'll keep reading...
Bruce
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Message: 5 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 07:58:52 +0200 From: Sluka Martin<martinsluka@me.com> Subject: Re: [Therion] Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK Cave Surveying Group To: List for Therion users<therion@speleo.sk> Message-ID:<94713252-A3AD-4262-A0B6-E167F51FA124@me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
I would welcome any feedback on the content of the tutorial as it is an on going project to improve the content to cover more features of Therion, and to correct any mistakes in the parts I have written so far.
Hi,
one thing more: we use for control of walls and joins or colour map-fg or colour map-bg. One may see all uncorrect joins very easy: check it with your pit sample.
Martin s.
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Message: 6 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 20:07:55 +1200 From: Bruce<bruce@tomo.co.nz> Subject: Re: [Therion] Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK CaveSurveying Group To: 'List for Therion users'<therion@speleo.sk> Message-ID:<60C1E90414CF4863B53DEDF4BC6A80E1@JUICEBRAIN> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The training course and example data can be found here: http://cp.cavesurveying.org.uk/index.php/articles/3-therion-tutorial
I would welcome any feedback on the content of the tutorial as it is an on going project ...
I have a question for the Therion Gods.
I notice the example uses a data format with the map definition INSIDE the survey like this...
survey bpw input bpw.th2
map bpwMP bpwSP1 break bpwSP2 endmap
centreline date 2011.12.03 <etc> endcentreline endsurvey
I have always tried to keep my map definitions OUTSIDE of surveys, as I've been following the dictum to keep surveys and maps as independent as possible. Having said that, Therion seems to think my maps are inside the survey one level up in the hierarchy, for example I need to specify items like; select bpwMP@BullPotFarm
(assuming, hypothetically that the example project is developed to include a few more caves, and collects them into survey called BullPotFarm),
instead of just
select bpwMP
which is what I normally get for a single level survey like the one in the example.
It has always confused me a little, as there seems to be no reason, based on my inputs, that the maps should be part of any survey. Theoretically they should be a completely independent hierarchy (I think). And the Xtherion map structure window places them in their own hierarchy (independent of surveys), but in the lower levels therion puts them in a survey like @BullPotFarm when it is double clicked to produce a 'select' statement. Everything compiles fine, so I just accept it and put it down to one of life's little mysteries.
So enlighten me. Is Footlegs example with the map defined within a survey the preferred way to define maps? (because therion will force them into a survey if you have more than one level of surveys anyway?) Or are there more ways to do things, with various pros and cons? Bruce
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Message: 7 Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:37:15 +0100 From: Andrew Atkinson<andrew@wotcc.org.uk> Subject: Re: [Therion] Training Course Guide for Therion from the UK CaveSurveying Group To: therion@speleo.sk Message-ID:<4FD9A2BB.9060804@wotcc.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On 14/06/12 09:07, Bruce wrote:
I have always tried to keep my map definitions OUTSIDE of surveys, as I've been following the dictum to keep surveys and maps as independent as possible. Having said that, Therion seems to think my maps are inside the survey one level up in the hierarchy, for example I need to specify items like; select bpwMP@BullPotFarm
Interesting interpretation, which had not crossed my mind, which is why I arrange the maps as it is in Footlegs example.
From my point of view (although I am very interested in what the 'gods' had in mind) I had interpreted it that the maps would probably be better if they did not equate to survey trip into caves not the survey-endsurvey nest. Now I understood this was because surveys trips tend to finish at junctions, which is the worse place to join maps. Also side passages are inevitably junctions. So I just slightly altered my surveying method, to one that I should have been doing before Therion. I just made sure that every side passage had a leg down it, now with the distoX this is really easy, you do not even have to go into the passage, the point just becomes temporary until you go back and survey the passage, but it removes the map join from the junction. In reality we should have always done this, as it show leads on the centreline and their direction, which has lead to a few links been discovered that in the past we would have ignored until much latter.
For older data where survey trips do not correspond to maps, I still put maps in survey-endsurvey nests to get something like this
survey 1 map 1a endmap
map 1b endmap endsurvey
survey 2 map 2 endmap endsurvey
survey a centreline endcentreline endsurvey
Although generally I have moved to put them into one survey-endsurvey which I find gives better naming control
survey cavename map 1a endmap
map 1b endmap
map 2 endmap
centreline endcentreline endsurvey
Anyway it works for me, although I am always interested in more efficient/clear systems
Andrew
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Graham Mullan