Hi again Been working on presentation some more, and have two more conundrums. How do I use a layout to hide altitude points attached to the cave walls? How do I show 'fixed' station points and show their names, but hide all other station points and names? debug station-names is too much. Bruce A sample of some of the show/hides I am using. #CAVE APPEARANCE #--------------- symbol-hide point cave-station symbol-show group cave-centreline #shows passage not yet drawn symbol-hide group surface-centreline #hide labels symbol-hide point label symbol-hide line label symbol-hide line arrow symbol-hide point altitude #symbol-hide line altitude #causes error symbol-hide point station-name #specific station name points - this line works fine with show or hide #hide sections symbol-hide point section #cross section locations symbol-hide line section #cross section cutting planes #blackout passage colour map-fg [0 0 0] #black # Shading in cave passage, <colour>, <altitude>, <scrap>, <map> # color map-fg map #colour map-fg [97 86 38] # yellow brown transparency off # see thru passages #opacity 40 # degree of transparency