OK - I turned 'debug on' in layout and now I get pretty images like this: http://trilogy-gw.aleph1.co.uk/~wookey/files/bluemoon.pdf I can see that the black linesare the final result and the red lines are the initial positions of the scrap walls, but what do the yellow lines/triangles indicate. It looks like distortions or distortions at joins? As you can see something has gone badly wrong in the upper centre of this image - I'm just trying to work out what... Also - as you can see on that pdf I am not getting any transparency on overlaying passages (despite having 'transparency on', 'opacity 50'). How do I fix that? or is it just that my viewer (xpdf) can't do it and it is just output into the PDF? Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
On Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at 12:36:15AM +0000, Wookey wrote:
Also - as you can see on that pdf I am not getting any transparency on overlaying passages (despite having 'transparency on', 'opacity 50'). How do I fix that? or is it just that my viewer (xpdf) can't do it and it is just output into the PDF?
Jenny found xpdf wasn't showing the transparency just before the BCRA conference (latest xpdf from debian unstable at the time). It worked at uni using a fairly recent version of the Adobe viewer on Windows 2000. A quick poke round the web seems to confirm this as a limitation of xpdf. It seems PDF may be rather entangled by patent problems (boo hiss): http://www.ghostscript.com/pipermail/gs-devel/2002-February/001203.html It's a shame Adobe's support for Unix and Linux is so rubbish. Cheers, Olly
I can see that the black lines are the final result and the red lines are the initial positions of the scrap walls, but what do the yellow lines/triangles indicate. It looks like distortions or distortions at joins?
I think the yellow blobs are the points that have been moved the most and the yellow lines are where they are being moved to (with one for each scrap?). Is this what is referred to as "orange" in the thbook? For me these were often a station that i had carelessly miss-labelled when drawing the scrap. Bye, Jenny
+++ Olly Betts [04-12-29 01:14 +0000]:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at 12:36:15AM +0000, Wookey wrote:
Also - as you can see on that pdf I am not getting any transparency on overlaying passages (despite having 'transparency on', 'opacity 50'). How do I fix that? or is it just that my viewer (xpdf) can't do it and it is just output into the PDF?
Jenny found xpdf wasn't showing the transparency just before the BCRA conference (latest xpdf from debian unstable at the time). It worked at uni using a fairly recent version of the Adobe viewer on Windows 2000.
A quick poke round the web seems to confirm this as a limitation of xpdf.
So it is - if I use gpdf then I get transparency. xpdf is realy handy though because you can leave a window open and do 'R' to reload the file each time you run a therion update (which is _really_often_ so that you can tell when you last broke it and so that I don't lose much when it hangs), gpdf doesn't have this very handy feature. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
+++ Jenny Black [04-12-29 01:18 +0000]:
I can see that the black lines are the final result and the red lines are the initial positions of the scrap walls, but what do the yellow lines/triangles indicate. It looks like distortions or distortions at joins?
I think the yellow blobs are the points that have been moved the most and the yellow lines are where they are being moved to (with one for each scrap?). Is this what is referred to as "orange" in the thbook?
presumably. And I notice that in fact I sometimes have 3 version of a scrap - red, blue and black/grey.
For me these were often a station that i had carelessly miss-labelled when drawing the scrap.
yes - rogue stations were the problem in that example. The most common problems are a) getting two stations with the same -name b) having a spurious station somwhere (which is also usually a duplicate) The interface means you have to actiuviely work to avoid these. When you add a new station it defaults to the same -name as the last one. This can be a useful speedup (edit the existing number) - but there should be something to tell you if you have entered two stations with the same -name. (this can be valid when the same station appears in two scraps, but two stations with the same name in one scrap is always wrong I think). Also because xtherion stays in 'insert point mode' until you cancel it, it is very easy to accidentaly put in a point somewhere random whilst moving the canvas, or to get two on top of each other. I'm not quite sure what to do about this, but maybe more actions should cancel 'insert point mode' than just 'escape'. Suggestions? Debug mode is very helpful in working out what has gone wrong though. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
On Wed, Dec 29, 2004 at 01:55:51AM +0000, Wookey wrote:
+++ Olly Betts [04-12-29 01:14 +0000]:
A quick poke round the web seems to confirm [lack of transparency support] as a limitation of xpdf.
So it is - if I use gpdf then I get transparency.
That's interesting, since gpdf is based on xpdf.
xpdf is realy handy though because you can leave a window open and do 'R' to reload the file each time you run a therion update (which is _really_often_ so that you can tell when you last broke it and so that I don't lose much when it hangs), gpdf doesn't have this very handy feature.
Post an "enhancement" bug on the GNOME bugzilla? Cheers, Olly
please unsubscribe me! On Dec 28, 2004, at 7:36 PM, Wookey wrote: OK - I turned 'debug on' in layout and now I get pretty images like this: http://trilogy-gw.aleph1.co.uk/~wookey/files/bluemoon.pdf I can see that the black linesare the final result and the red lines are the initial positions of the scrap walls, but what do the yellow lines/triangles indicate. It looks like distortions or distortions at joins? As you can see something has gone badly wrong in the upper centre of this image - I'm just trying to work out what... Also - as you can see on that pdf I am not getting any transparency on overlaying passages (despite having 'transparency on', 'opacity 50'). How do I fix that? or is it just that my viewer (xpdf) can't do it and it is just output into the PDF? Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/ Gary Ritchie, Designer + Digital Artist Pittsburgh, USA http://garyritchie.com T: 412 371 9152 AIM: secundarx Alt email: g.ritchie4@verizon.net
I can see that the black linesare the final result and the red lines are the initial positions of the scrap walls, but what do the yellow lines/triangles indicate. It looks like distortions or distortions at joins?
red-lines - original scraps just rotated and scaled blue-lines - scraps adjusted to survey stations (before processing joins) red points - original positions of survey stations yellow points connected by yellow line - original position of two points in scrap with maximal distortion black points connected by black line - final position of two points in scrap with maximal distortion yellow lines connecting black and yellow points indicate how these pointe were shifted. If there is only one black point -> two stations with different names at one place. Easiest way how to trace stations is to put -name in the search field. Then click "Find first" and then "Find next" and trace station after station, whether it has correct position. Regards, S.
The interface means you have to actiuviely work to avoid these. When you add a new station it defaults to the same -name as the last one. This can be a useful speedup (edit the existing number) - but there should be something to tell you if you have entered two stations with the same -name.
This is already in the TODO list. It will be reported as therion error (in the plan and elevation projections).
Also because xtherion stays in 'insert point mode' until you cancel it, it is very easy to accidentaly put in a point somewhere random whilst moving the canvas, or to get two on top of each other.
This is already changed (will be in next release). If you will enter second point with the same type on the same place, it will not insert it, but it will cancel insert mode. Regards, S.
+++ Stacho Mudrak [04-12-29 10:01 +0100]:
red-lines - original scraps just rotated and scaled blue-lines - scraps adjusted to survey stations (before processing joins)
red points - original positions of survey stations yellow points connected by yellow line - original position of two points in scrap with maximal distortion black points connected by black line - final position of two points in scrap with maximal distortion yellow lines connecting black and yellow points indicate how these pointe were shifted.
If there is only one black point -> two stations with different names at one place.
Easiest way how to trace stations is to put -name in the search field. Then click "Find first" and then "Find next" and trace station after station, whether it has correct position.
I put this in the wiki. Although possibly not in the best place... I'll put somemore info of these questions/answers in the wiki as we go along. Wookey -- Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel +44 (0) 1223 811679 work: http://www.aleph1.co.uk/ play: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~wookey/
participants (6)
-
Gary Ritchie -
Jenny Black -
Ladislav Blazek -
Olly Betts -
Stacho Mudrak -
Wookey