Hello I have been working on a largish survey project (25km surveyed in month) for the last few months. Each section of cave is split into scraps and compiled with the a file like survey The_Ashes_Seriesth import The_Ashes_Series.3d -surveys use input The_Ashes_Series.th2 map The_Ashes_SeriesMap -title "The Ashes Series" The_Ashes_SeriesScPl1 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl2 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl3 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl4 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl5 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl6 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl8 endmap join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl1 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl2 -smooth on join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl2 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl4 -smooth on join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl4 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl3 -smooth on join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl3 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl5 -smooth on join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl5 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl6 -smooth on join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl5 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 -smooth on #join The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 The_Ashes_SeriesScPl8 -smooth on Endsurvey As you can see I am using survex files direct. This works fine. However when I come to compile the whole cave, rather than copying the above text into another document I have tried to include the file. However, as it is in a survey the station names get prefixed. The above also imports the 3d file, but in the overall compilation, I need to use the compiled 3d file. I end up having to comment out the survey, end survey and import lines, which becomes tedious. This will get worse when we try to put lots of caves on the same map. Am I missing something? Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 16/12/2005
Quoting Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
This will get worse when we try to put lots of caves on the same map. Am I missing something?
I am sorry, but I am not sure whether I understand your problem correctly. If not, could you please write me example with station/survey names. Import command has a -filter option, using which you should be able to remove additional surveys (including top prefix) that are in the .3d file compiled on the top level. May be this will help you. If not, what other options you would like to have in import command? S.
I have tied to use wall subtype debris and outline out in the join between scraps The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 and The_Ashes_SeriesScPl8 however I am still getting a triangle of clipping that seems to ignore the debris wall? The data is available at http://mulucaves.org/SVN/Ashes.zip I have included the pdf, incase it is something to do with the machine I am generating it on. I am using Win2000 with acrobat reader 7. Also scrap The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 is under The_Ashes_SeriesScPl5, but it does not seem to be faded, I have changed the config, but it seems to make no difference. It works for other scraps in other parts of the cave Thanks Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 20/12/2005
This is the situation where wall invisible should be used :) The scrap outline generation algorithm works wrong way in this case. When the algorithm is creating scrap outline, it goes from end of one line to the nearest end of second line. In your case, when it comes to the end of debris line, it connects the second line, but on the wrong end. Than triangle appears. When you will connect the end of debris line with invisible wall to the correct wall end on the other side of the passage, your problem should be fixed (at least on my machine is). Matapost also complains about this - that scrap outline intersect it self. I know, that this algorithm can be improved, but... But at least, I will put it in the TODO list. Regards, S. Quoting Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
I have tied to use wall subtype debris and outline out in the join between scraps The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 and The_Ashes_SeriesScPl8 however I am still getting a triangle of clipping that seems to ignore the debris wall?
The data is available at
http://mulucaves.org/SVN/Ashes.zip
I have included the pdf, incase it is something to do with the machine I am generating it on. I am using Win2000 with acrobat reader 7.
Also scrap The_Ashes_SeriesScPl7 is under The_Ashes_SeriesScPl5, but it does not seem to be faded, I have changed the config, but it seems to make no difference. It works for other scraps in other parts of the cave
Thanks
Andrew
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An example of one cave is available at http://mulucaves.org/SVN/Moon_Cave.zip The aim is so I can run each section of cave (represented by a directory) individually or the whole thing from the root, without editing the whole cave. Including them in a survey-endsurvey nest changes the name of the station therefore I cannot get it to work. This is why I have an extra th file *_WRAPPER. This works as far as it goes, but when I try to combine caves using the same method I get an error about nested input. I am aiming to have to only edit changes in one location, otherwise this large data set will become a real mess. Moon_Cave was only one cave surveyed on a 4 week trip and represents about a quarter of the total surveyed on that trip. Therefore a well organised system is going to be important. Hope this helps you understand what I am trying to do. For information: Everyone who surveyed drew up there own surveys and Therionised them, even computer phobic's became quite enthusiastic. On the last day of the trip the plans where printed and handed to the local park warden. Okay, they where not perfect. This would not have been possible without Therion, so thanks. Andrew
-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.cz [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.cz] On Behalf Of Stacho Mudrak Sent: 21 December 2005 16:01 To: therion@speleo.sk Subject: Re: [Therion] Nesting surveys
Quoting Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
This will get worse when we try to put lots of caves on the same map. Am I missing something?
I am sorry, but I am not sure whether I understand your problem correctly. If not, could you please write me example with station/survey names.
Import command has a -filter option, using which you should be able to remove additional surveys (including top prefix) that are in the .3d file compiled on the top level. May be this will help you.
If not, what other options you would like to have in import command?
S. _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.cz http://www.speleo.cz/mailman/listinfo/therion
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-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 20/12/2005
-- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.2/208 - Release Date: 20/12/2005
Quoting Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
The aim is so I can run each section of cave (represented by a directory) individually or the whole thing from the root, without editing the whole cave.
Hope this helps you understand what I am trying to do.
Yes. I think, now I understand your problem. I am not sure, but simple solution of this problem would be not to generate errors, if one station is imported twice - from global .3d and from local .3d file. And of course allways prefer the coordinates from the global file. This will probably work, I am just able to start working on it after Christmas :)
For information: Everyone who surveyed drew up there own surveys and Therionised them, even computer phobic's became quite enthusiastic. On the last day of the trip the plans where printed and handed to the local park warden. Okay, they where not perfect. This would not have been possible without Therion, so thanks.
This is great! S.
-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.cz [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.cz] On Behalf Of Stacho Mudrak Sent: 22 December 2005 12:14 To: therion@speleo.sk Subject: Re: [Therion] Nesting surveys
Quoting Andrew Atkinson <andrew@wotcc.org.uk>:
The aim is so I can run each section of cave (represented by a directory) individually or the whole thing from the root, without editing the whole cave.
Hope this helps you understand what I am trying to do.
Yes. I think, now I understand your problem. I am not sure, but simple solution of this problem would be not to generate errors, if one station is imported twice - from global .3d and from local .3d file. And of course allways prefer the coordinates from the global file. This will probably work, I am just able to start working on it after Christmas :)
I think I understand that using the global dataset would work, however, this means that everything has to be tided into the global dataset from the start. For various reasons this is not going to be possible (well not in the near future.) I was also hoping to be able to send distinct sections out, without sending the whole dataset out, eg just send the folder darkside out and someone would be able to edit it. Also I like to try to have data as simple to change as possible. For example when a cave has been misnamed I could just change a couple of references and that would be it, I am thinking of situations of when a small cave is linked to a large system and then is just an area of that system. If the full global reference is used in the th2 files this would not be possible. Also if I understand you correctly, I would have to edit every station name in all the th2 file.
From a users point of view, a possible solution is to use some sort of prefix name - endprefix that would use the survex naming structure ie add name.* to all the stations. Similar to the survey name - endsurvey, however using the survex naming structure. Then people nesting using survex .3d files would have to include files at various levels with the following syntax
import survexfile.3d -surveys use prefix name1 input filename1.th2 endprefix prefix name2 input filename2.th2 endprefix Possibly not as neat as we would like, but might mean that the 2 programs are more compatible. Thanks Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.3/209 - Release Date: 21/12/2005
I think I understand that using the global dataset would work, however, this means that everything has to be tided into the global dataset from the start. For various reasons this is not going to be possible (well not in the near future.) I was also hoping to be able to send distinct sections out, without sending the whole dataset out, eg just send the folder darkside out and someone would be able to edit it. Also I like to try to have data as simple to change as possible. For example when a cave has been misnamed I could just change a couple of references and that would be it, I am thinking of situations of when a small cave is linked to a large system and then is just an area of that system. If the full global reference is used in the th2 files this would not be possible.
I am not sure, whether we have understood. From my point of view, everything you described would work - without needs of knowing this global dataset structure. Assuming the most simple scenario: You have a centerline in survex. There is only one survey "entrance" and stations are named from 0 to 10. In therion, your dataset (entrance.th) will be like: import entrance.3d -surveys use survey entrance input entrance.th2 endsurvey ... assuming in entrance.th2 stations are without any prefix - named just 0,1,..,10. Now you have two such directories: "entrance" and "continuation" for example. In survex, you have a global file named "cave.3d" where stations from entrance dataset look like cave.entrance.1 and from second dataset cave.continuation.1 and cave.3d in in the upper level directory. Now the corresponding cave.th file in this directory will be like: import cave.3d -surveys use survey cave input entrance/entrance.th input continuation/continuation.th endsurvey And that's all. You are able to work on single peace without knowing global datastructure. You may send only directory continuation to somebody without any files from top level directory and it will work. He may edit it, send it back to you and it will work also. If he will rename this survey, you just change references in cave.th and that's all. I do not see any of problems you have described.
Also if I understand you correctly, I would have to edit every station name in all the th2 file.
Certainly not. It looks I missed something. I was wondering, why you use such a long station names... I need to check your source files once more, may be your problem is different.
From a users point of view, a possible solution is to use some sort of prefix name - endprefix that would use the survex naming structure ie add name.* to all the stations.
Scrap already has this possibility via -station-names option. You may add prefixes or suffixes if you like. OK, I will check your files more in the detail, may be I will understand. But today, thinking is a little bit difficult for me - I drunk something last night and I slept only 3 hours... Probably when I will wake up tomorrow, everything will be clear. S.
I think I understand that using the global dataset would work, however, this means that everything has to be tided into the global dataset from the start. For various reasons this is not going to be possible (well not in the near future.) I was also hoping to be able to send distinct sections out, without sending the whole dataset out, eg just send the folder darkside out and someone would be able to edit it. Also I like to try to have data as simple to change as possible. For example when a cave has been misnamed I could just change a couple of references and that would be it, I am thinking of situations of when a small cave is linked to a large system and then is just an area of that system. If the full global reference is used in the th2 files this would not be possible.
I am not sure, whether we have understood. From my point of view, everything you described would work - without needs of knowing this global dataset structure. Assuming the most simple scenario:
You have a centerline in survex. There is only one survey "entrance" and stations are named from 0 to 10. In therion, your dataset (entrance.th) will be like:
import entrance.3d -surveys use
survey entrance input entrance.th2 endsurvey
... assuming in entrance.th2 stations are without any prefix - named just 0,1,..,10.
Now you have two such directories: "entrance" and "continuation" for example. In survex, you have a global file named "cave.3d" where stations from entrance dataset look like cave.entrance.1 and from second dataset cave.continuation.1 and cave.3d in in the upper level directory.
Now the corresponding cave.th file in this directory will be like:
import cave.3d -surveys use
survey cave input entrance/entrance.th input continuation/continuation.th endsurvey
And that's all. You are able to work on single peace without knowing global datastructure. You may send only directory continuation to somebody without any files from top level directory and it will work. He may edit it, send it back to you and it will work also. If he will rename this survey, you just change references in cave.th and that's all. I do not see any of problems you have described.
This is what I have tried, however I get an error error -- Benerat_Mainline/Benerat_Mainline.th2 [371] -- invalid station reference -- mainline_side.52 And from further up the log file 14> 290 : moon_cave.mainline_side.41@Moon_Caveth Which indicates to me that the survex.3d name is moon_cave.mainline_side.52 but the Therion name is mainline_side.52 I have solved this by adding a filter, shown below. I also could not get the data set to work with the import outside of the survey-endsurvey. I have just tried again, and I still cannot get it to work. survey cave import cave.3d -surveys use -filter cave input entrance/entrance.th input continuation/continuation.th endsurvey the problem with the filter is that it will only work up one level. Well I have not found a way around it. I have the import outside of the survey-endsurvey. I have just tried to move it inside but cannot get it to work. <snip>
Scrap already has this possibility via -station-names option. You may add prefixes or suffixes if you like.
This may solve the problem, but as usual I am having problems. From reading the therion book I understand that it is used in a scrap-endscrap or centreline-endcentreline. But I need to amend it for a number of scraps within a th2 file. This prefix will be different depending on where the th2 file is called from??? Unfortunately for now I have run out of time. I will be able to try again in the New Year, when I suspect that I will be asking for you help again. I hope your head has recovered by then! Andrew -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.3/209 - Release Date: 21/12/2005
participants (2)
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Andrew Atkinson -
Stacho Mudrak