Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo sketches in complex projects
Having embarked on drawing up a larger cave system with data from various sources, I discovered that PocketTopo sketches brought into the drawing editor just get names local to that sketch (e.g. 3.3, 3.4, etc.) but my project builds up the centreline from multiple centreline surveys. So the actual name of the stations in my cave is like 3.3@subsection.dataset.cavename Thinking there must be a solution to this, I searched the wiki, and found it (Thanks Bruce!). I can use the -station-names option on my scraps in the sketch to say what the full name of the station should be. But my station names do not need a prefix (it is already set from the xvi file by the editor) and with a bit of experimentation I discovered that to omit the prefix I have to put a pair of double-quotes as the prefix. This works, but is there a neater way to do it? e.g. -station-names "" @ShortDryWay.swildons means my station with -name 3.3 will be treated as 3.3@ShortDryWay.swildonsin the scrap and this is what my station in the complete cave centreline data is named so it works. It just seems unintuitive to have to give a blank prefix this way. Bruce's example also includes author and copyright options on the scraps. How does Therion use these? Or are they just allowed on the scrap options but not used in any generated output? While reading Bruce's excellent advice pages on data structures I spotted some places where more recent developments or ways I work make things easier since the section was written. So I've added a tip on getting data off PDA via memory card, and a link to Andrew's TopParser application to this wiki page: http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless#data_transfer_from_pocketto... Footleg
Thinking there must be a solution to this, I searched the wiki, and found it (Thanks Bruce!).
Thanks Footleg. In truth my wiki edits are selfishly motivated. They are my personal reminders, and the wiki is a good place to store them. Also an attempt to entice new users, but that has not been successful (yet) in my local community. And also hopefully people will point out when I have not found the best way to do things.
I can use the -station-names option on my scraps in the sketch to say what the full name of the station should be. But my station names do not need a prefix (it is already set from the xvi file by the editor) and with a bit of experimentation I discovered that to omit the prefix I have to put a pair of double-quotes as the prefix. This works, but is there a neater way to do it? e.g. -station-names "" @ShortDryWay.swildons
means my station with -name 3.3 will be treated as 3.3@ShortDryWay.swildons in the scrap and this is what my station in the complete cave centreline data is named so it works. It just seems unintuitive to have to give a blank prefix this way. The way I was advised to do it way back was with square brackets []. Not sure if there is a reason why they are preferred over "". I should have made that clearer in the drawing checklist page. I have hinted at it here. http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless?s[]=station <http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless?s%5b%5d=station&s%5b%5d=na mes> &s[]=names Search for [
Bruce's example also includes author and copyright options on the scraps. How does Therion use these? Or are they just allowed on the scrap options but not used in any generated output?
Copyright information is displayed in pdf headers in the same way as surveyors and explorers if you
While reading Bruce's excellent advice pages on data structures I spotted some places where more recent developments or ways I work make things easier since the section was written.
I am deeply embarrassed that I have not been able to finish the 'organisation' pages. It is because I have realized that the system I have adopted does not scale well to large systems. The realization is coming to me that it is good in some circumstances, but I need to clarify what those circumstances are. I have an inkling of a better system, but I need to put it to some use before I write more (and find time.). Still, I think some of the finer detail remains valid regardless of the overall way data is organized. People are welcome to add to and improve 'my' pages.
So I've added a tip on getting data off PDA via memory card, and a link to Andrew's TopParser application to this wiki page: http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php/paperless#data_transfer_from_pocketto po_to_therion
Thanks Footleg. I think your advice re the memory card is not the way intended by Beat. From memory the better way is to store data to main memory and make sure you have a memory card installed. Pockettopo will automatically save backups regularly to the memory card, and makes sure it is never writing two files simultaneously. That way, only one of the pair of files may be being written to, and thus potentially corrupt at the instant the pda is smashed to pieces. Also, you have two copies of the file, so more chance of recovery. From time to time I have checked and opened the backup files (when the pda is in a safe place) and it seems they are usable files created transparently without any user intervention. (Just make sure the pda OS recognizes there is a card installed). Re using the memory card to transfer data. In the normal course of events, my preference is to leave the card permanently sealed up in the device. Plugging in a usb cable or using bluetooth is quicker and less likely to damage the seals (Our pdas get lots of grit, mud and submersion each trip). Granted there will be variations between devices and user preferences. Bruce
Hi Bruce, Interesting observations on PDAs and where to store files. I was aware that PocketTopo writes backup copies of the data file in use to the memory card, but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it is when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my PDA memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on. If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in the cave rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if only stored on the PDA internal memory. I always take my cards out to copy data, but then my PDA is not sealed so it is not a problem. Instead I use the PDA inside a waterproof Aquapaq case which I can draw through but makes everything completely submersible (to 5m it is claimed, but mainly I just wash it in a stream if too muddy). I am working on a system to organise data for a larger cave, mixing historical data and recent data. I'll try to document it once I have determined that it really works. I have spent much more time working out how best to do things than actually drawing anything yet, as I want to be sure I am doing it right before spending the next few years drawing! Footleg
Footleg
., but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it is when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my PDA memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on. If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in the cave rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if only stored on the PDA internal memory.
Yes, there are only two backup files, and they are both of the file currently or last worked on. We do end up with multiple files worked on in any one survey trip, so that is a flaw with working directly on the built in storage. Perhaps I should manually copy previous files to removable media as I create a new file! I use old slow cards (they are free and plentiful) so am reluctant to work off them directly - pockettopo is slow enough as it is with large datasets (yes I know there is a workaround - I just like to keep the workflow and data structure simple).
I am working on a system to organise data for a larger cave, mixing historical data and recent data. I'll try to document it once I have determined that it really works. I have spent much more time working out how best to do things than actually drawing anything yet, as I want to be sure I am doing it right before spending the next few years drawing!
Fantastic, there is no hurry, as it is unlikely I will beat you to it. And in my previous post I forgot to finish one of the sentences.
Bruce's example also includes author and copyright options on the scraps. How does Therion use these? Or are they just allowed on the scrap options but not used in any generated output?
For scraps, copyright information is displayed in pdf headers in the same way as surveyors and explorers (by default I think) and the author is reported as 'drawn by' in the same way. For survey centerlines, as far as I know there is no way to get therion to report the author, but as the Therion book says, the information is accepted. I think it should be included in the database export, but it seems to date that it is not. I notice in 5.3.11 the database export now includes some map information, so perhaps the centerline authors can be included soon :-) Bruce
Interesting observations on PDAs and where to store files. I was aware that PocketTopo writes backup copies of the data file in use to the memory card, but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it is when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my PDA memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on. If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in the cave rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if only stored on the PDA internal memory.
The main idea is indeed to recover from crashes during surveying. If a backup file is found during startup of the program, it is reopened automatically. So normally you do not even notice the crash. However, the backup files are not immediately removed when PocketTopo is closed or another file opened, instead they are renamed from "~back*.top" to "backup/~back*.top". This allows to recover a file even if PocketTopo is already closed or the next survey is ongoing. This works until the next time PocketTopo is closed or another file is opened and recovery must be done manually, there is no automatic access to the backup/* files. When you finish a file and start working in another area, I recommend to manually copy the file to the external card, just to be sure. Regards Beat From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Footleg Sent: Sunday, 16 June, 2013 00:04 To: List for Therion users Subject: Re: [Therion] Using autonamed station named from PocketTopo sketches incomplex projects Hi Bruce, Interesting observations on PDAs and where to store files. I was aware that PocketTopo writes backup copies of the data file in use to the memory card, but I thought it cleaned these up when you saved the file (or maybe it is when you open a new file or close PocketTopo). I have never noticed my PDA memory cards littered with back-up files. Just seen one instance on the card when PocketTopo is running. So on that basis I assumed that the auto-backup feature will only save you if PocketTopo crashes or the PDA was destroyed (or battery ran flat) while in the middle of surveying. Once you finish and close the project (or switch to a different file in PocketTopo which I often do on a trip when working on large projects with several areas active) then you lose any auto-backup of the file you were last working on. If it is not on the memory card and the PDA then gets damaged (in transit in the cave rather than while in active use) then you would lose the data if only stored on the PDA internal memory. I always take my cards out to copy data, but then my PDA is not sealed so it is not a problem. Instead I use the PDA inside a waterproof Aquapaq case which I can draw through but makes everything completely submersible (to 5m it is claimed, but mainly I just wash it in a stream if too muddy). I am working on a system to organise data for a larger cave, mixing historical data and recent data. I'll try to document it once I have determined that it really works. I have spent much more time working out how best to do things than actually drawing anything yet, as I want to be sure I am doing it right before spending the next few years drawing! Footleg
participants (3)
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Beat Heeb -
Bruce -
Footleg