Hello Therion 5.3.5 ubuntu 10.04 In the attached file the following information is given about the survey title: RhinoPassage length: 189.07m (surface 0.00m, duplicated 24.58m) vertical range: 20.51m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 20.38m to 1.3@RhinoPassage at -0.13m) north-south range: 92.47m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 33.43m to 1.53@RhinoPassage at -59.04m) east-west range: 66.67m (from 1.53@RhinoPassage at 66.67m to 1.0@RhinoPassage at 0.00m) number of shots: 281 number of stations: 282 The duplicate figure got me wondering, it seems to be counting the splays but the length does not. As the duplicate none splays are only about 10m. Maybe this is what is wanted, but I personally think that the duplicate value should be the amount taken off the length by the duplicate flag? Ie why is length treated differently to duplicate (something to do with the way survex treated splays and duplicate as different, I think that splays are not included in extend in survex) Maybe 2 figures would be better, duplicate length and duplicate splays. {probably best to ignore this next bit} Oh this leads to all sorts of thinks that are really not important, like maybe giving the length of all the splays, and the number of stations, is it really 282 or really 54. All depends on your definition I guess Andrew
Hi Andrew Yes, when splay shots to an unlabelled station such as '-' are included in a dataset, such as when using a distoX or similar, the statistics do not make that much sense to me. I think it still works the way you describe in 5.3.7. To my way of thinking, splay shots are not part of the survey length (and therefore should not be duplicate either), they are analogous to LRUD. IF they are to be reported, they should be separately reported as 'total splay length' and 'number of splay stations' (could be further broken down into 'surface splays' and 'cave splays' if one was being picky). If there were to be a compromise for the sake of simplicity I would prefer that therion exclude splay information from all the reported statistics (as it ignores LRUD, which are really just special splay shots), rather than the apparently selective way the splay shots are currently included. Regards Bruce -----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Andrew Atkinson Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 6:10 a.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: [Therion] Duplicates including adding splays? Hello Therion 5.3.5 ubuntu 10.04 In the attached file the following information is given about the survey title: RhinoPassage length: 189.07m (surface 0.00m, duplicated 24.58m) vertical range: 20.51m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 20.38m to 1.3@RhinoPassage at -0.13m) north-south range: 92.47m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 33.43m to 1.53@RhinoPassage at -59.04m) east-west range: 66.67m (from 1.53@RhinoPassage at 66.67m to 1.0@RhinoPassage at 0.00m) number of shots: 281 number of stations: 282 The duplicate figure got me wondering, it seems to be counting the splays but the length does not. As the duplicate none splays are only about 10m. Maybe this is what is wanted, but I personally think that the duplicate value should be the amount taken off the length by the duplicate flag? Ie why is length treated differently to duplicate (something to do with the way survex treated splays and duplicate as different, I think that splays are not included in extend in survex) Maybe 2 figures would be better, duplicate length and duplicate splays. {probably best to ignore this next bit} Oh this leads to all sorts of thinks that are really not important, like maybe giving the length of all the splays, and the number of stations, is it really 282 or really 54. All depends on your definition I guess Andrew
I agree with bruce. also noticed that splay shots are used for the "depth". it might make sense, but i rather have the depth computed with the survey shots only. marco. On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 08:44 +1200, Bruce wrote:
Hi Andrew Yes, when splay shots to an unlabelled station such as '-' are included in a dataset, such as when using a distoX or similar, the statistics do not make that much sense to me. I think it still works the way you describe in 5.3.7.
To my way of thinking, splay shots are not part of the survey length (and therefore should not be duplicate either), they are analogous to LRUD. IF they are to be reported, they should be separately reported as 'total splay length' and 'number of splay stations' (could be further broken down into 'surface splays' and 'cave splays' if one was being picky).
If there were to be a compromise for the sake of simplicity I would prefer that therion exclude splay information from all the reported statistics (as it ignores LRUD, which are really just special splay shots), rather than the apparently selective way the splay shots are currently included.
Regards Bruce
-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Andrew Atkinson Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 6:10 a.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: [Therion] Duplicates including adding splays?
Hello
Therion 5.3.5 ubuntu 10.04
In the attached file the following information is given about the survey
title: RhinoPassage length: 189.07m (surface 0.00m, duplicated 24.58m) vertical range: 20.51m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 20.38m to 1.3@RhinoPassage at -0.13m) north-south range: 92.47m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 33.43m to 1.53@RhinoPassage at -59.04m) east-west range: 66.67m (from 1.53@RhinoPassage at 66.67m to 1.0@RhinoPassage at 0.00m) number of shots: 281 number of stations: 282
The duplicate figure got me wondering, it seems to be counting the splays but the length does not. As the duplicate none splays are only about 10m. Maybe this is what is wanted, but I personally think that the duplicate value should be the amount taken off the length by the duplicate flag? Ie why is length treated differently to duplicate (something to do with the way survex treated splays and duplicate as different, I think that splays are not included in extend in survex)
Maybe 2 figures would be better, duplicate length and duplicate splays.
{probably best to ignore this next bit} Oh this leads to all sorts of thinks that are really not important, like maybe giving the length of all the splays, and the number of stations, is it really 282 or really 54. All depends on your definition I guess
Andrew
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It looks like a bug, they should not be used for depth. I will try to fix it. Thanks, S. On 13 June 2011 08:28, marco corvi <marco.corvi@elsagdatamat.com> wrote:
I agree with bruce.
also noticed that splay shots are used for the "depth". it might make sense, but i rather have the depth computed with the survey shots only.
marco.
On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 08:44 +1200, Bruce wrote:
Hi Andrew Yes, when splay shots to an unlabelled station such as '-' are included in a dataset, such as when using a distoX or similar, the statistics do not make that much sense to me. I think it still works the way you describe in 5.3.7.
To my way of thinking, splay shots are not part of the survey length (and therefore should not be duplicate either), they are analogous to LRUD. IF they are to be reported, they should be separately reported as 'total splay length' and 'number of splay stations' (could be further broken down into 'surface splays' and 'cave splays' if one was being picky).
If there were to be a compromise for the sake of simplicity I would prefer that therion exclude splay information from all the reported statistics (as it ignores LRUD, which are really just special splay shots), rather than the apparently selective way the splay shots are currently included.
Regards Bruce
-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Andrew Atkinson Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 6:10 a.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: [Therion] Duplicates including adding splays?
Hello
Therion 5.3.5 ubuntu 10.04
In the attached file the following information is given about the survey
title: RhinoPassage length: 189.07m (surface 0.00m, duplicated 24.58m) vertical range: 20.51m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 20.38m to 1.3@RhinoPassage at -0.13m) north-south range: 92.47m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 33.43m to 1.53@RhinoPassage at -59.04m) east-west range: 66.67m (from 1.53@RhinoPassage at 66.67m to 1.0@RhinoPassage at 0.00m) number of shots: 281 number of stations: 282
The duplicate figure got me wondering, it seems to be counting the splays but the length does not. As the duplicate none splays are only about 10m. Maybe this is what is wanted, but I personally think that the duplicate value should be the amount taken off the length by the duplicate flag? Ie why is length treated differently to duplicate (something to do with the way survex treated splays and duplicate as different, I think that splays are not included in extend in survex)
Maybe 2 figures would be better, duplicate length and duplicate splays.
{probably best to ignore this next bit} Oh this leads to all sorts of thinks that are really not important, like maybe giving the length of all the splays, and the number of stations, is it really 282 or really 54. All depends on your definition I guess
Andrew
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_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
This bug should be also fixed now in 5.3.8. If not, please let me know. S. On 13 June 2011 10:00, Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> wrote:
It looks like a bug, they should not be used for depth. I will try to fix it.
Thanks, S.
On 13 June 2011 08:28, marco corvi <marco.corvi@elsagdatamat.com> wrote:
I agree with bruce.
also noticed that splay shots are used for the "depth". it might make sense, but i rather have the depth computed with the survey shots only.
marco.
On Mon, 2011-06-13 at 08:44 +1200, Bruce wrote:
Hi Andrew Yes, when splay shots to an unlabelled station such as '-' are included in a dataset, such as when using a distoX or similar, the statistics do not make that much sense to me. I think it still works the way you describe in 5.3.7.
To my way of thinking, splay shots are not part of the survey length (and therefore should not be duplicate either), they are analogous to LRUD. IF they are to be reported, they should be separately reported as 'total splay length' and 'number of splay stations' (could be further broken down into 'surface splays' and 'cave splays' if one was being picky).
If there were to be a compromise for the sake of simplicity I would prefer that therion exclude splay information from all the reported statistics (as it ignores LRUD, which are really just special splay shots), rather than the apparently selective way the splay shots are currently included.
Regards Bruce
-----Original Message----- From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Andrew Atkinson Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 6:10 a.m. To: List for Therion users Subject: [Therion] Duplicates including adding splays?
Hello
Therion 5.3.5 ubuntu 10.04
In the attached file the following information is given about the survey
title: RhinoPassage length: 189.07m (surface 0.00m, duplicated 24.58m) vertical range: 20.51m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 20.38m to 1.3@RhinoPassage at -0.13m) north-south range: 92.47m (from 1.27@RhinoPassage at 33.43m to 1.53@RhinoPassage at -59.04m) east-west range: 66.67m (from 1.53@RhinoPassage at 66.67m to 1.0@RhinoPassage at 0.00m) number of shots: 281 number of stations: 282
The duplicate figure got me wondering, it seems to be counting the splays but the length does not. As the duplicate none splays are only about 10m. Maybe this is what is wanted, but I personally think that the duplicate value should be the amount taken off the length by the duplicate flag? Ie why is length treated differently to duplicate (something to do with the way survex treated splays and duplicate as different, I think that splays are not included in extend in survex)
Maybe 2 figures would be better, duplicate length and duplicate splays.
{probably best to ignore this next bit} Oh this leads to all sorts of thinks that are really not important, like maybe giving the length of all the splays, and the number of stations, is it really 282 or really 54. All depends on your definition I guess
Andrew
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I think there were at least two issues raised in this thread, discussed below.
This bug should be also fixed now in 5.3.8. If not, please let me know. S.
also noticed that splay shots are used for the "depth". it might make sense, but i rather have the depth computed with the survey shots only.
One My informal comparison of 5.3.8 outputs with 5.3.7 suggests that depth is now likely to be accounting for only the centreline survey shots, which I like (although this could perhaps one day be a user selectable option-both are useful for differing purposes?).
To my way of thinking, splay shots are not part of the survey length (and therefore should not be duplicate either), they are analogous to LRUD. IF they are to be reported, they should be separately reported as 'total splay length' and 'number of splay stations' (could be further broken down into 'surface splays' and 'cave splays' if one was being picky).
If there were to be a compromise for the sake of simplicity I would prefer that therion exclude splay information from all the reported statistics (as it ignores LRUD, which are really just special splay shots),
Bruce
Maybe this is what is wanted, but I personally think that the duplicate value should be the amount taken off the length by the duplicate flag? Maybe 2 figures would be better, duplicate length and duplicate splays.
Andrew
Two It seems to me that the splay shot statistics are still mixed in with the centreline statistics- ie no change between 5.3.7 and 5.3.8. Perhaps this was not the 'bug' referred to above, and I suspect it might require a lot of work, but deserves consideration I think.
Bruce
participants (4)
-
Andrew Atkinson -
Bruce -
marco corvi -
Stacho Mudrak