Typical Head of Water between entry and exit of sumped passages
I am working on a master survey of the Kingsdale System in Yorkshire, UK. There is a substantial submerged portion to the system. Over a rough distance of 1500m of sumped passage, what difference in water levels could be expected between the upstream and downstream ends of the sump? The diving data just records water depth, so it computes both ends of the sump as having identical water levels. We know in flood conditions the upstream sump level backs up considerably. But assuming the diving is done in conditions of low flow, what typical difference might be reasonable to expect in the altitude of the resurgence and of the upstream end of the sump (determined by survey data from an entrance)? My data shows a significant difference, but I do not know how much of that difference might be expected and how much is due to errors in the dry passage survey and entrance altitudes? Footleg
Short answer (from cave diving experience): Not much (if the water flow and passage size allows divers to swim thru) Bit longer (scientific): Assume a 10cm/sec flow, 1 meter diameter tunnel, 10cm wall roughness, 1500 meter length -> http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/ Gives a pressure drop: 7.56 mbar / 0.01 bar br, Robert On 26.06.2013 14:42, Footleg wrote:
I am working on a master survey of the Kingsdale System in Yorkshire, UK. There is a substantial submerged portion to the system. Over a rough distance of 1500m of sumped passage, what difference in water levels could be expected between the upstream and downstream ends of the sump?
The diving data just records water depth, so it computes both ends of the sump as having identical water levels. We know in flood conditions the upstream sump level backs up considerably. But assuming the diving is done in conditions of low flow, what typical difference might be reasonable to expect in the altitude of the resurgence and of the upstream end of the sump (determined by survey data from an entrance)? My data shows a significant difference, but I do not know how much of that difference might be expected and how much is due to errors in the dry passage survey and entrance altitudes?
Footleg _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
+++ Robert Staven [2013-06-26 15:15 +0200]:
Short answer (from cave diving experience): Not much (if the water flow and passage size allows divers to swim thru)
Bit longer (scientific): Assume a 10cm/sec flow, 1 meter diameter tunnel, 10cm wall roughness, 1500 meter length -> http://www.pressure-drop.com/Online-Calculator/ Gives a pressure drop: 7.56 mbar / 0.01 bar
OK, which presumably amounts to a 10cm drop, and each bend, enlargement, and corner adds a few more millibars. That might add another 5-10 mbar total (100 features of 0.1-0.05 mbar each) which is another 5-10cm. Changing the pipe roughness to 500mm gets us 0.03bar, which is 30cm So roughness matters at least as much as corners, but whatever it looks like it seems unlikely (assuming thsese sums are a reasonable model), to have a difference of any more than half a metre. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM http://wookware.org/
Hi Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file? The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working". When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up: " the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found " I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do! I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions. thanks Michael Brewer
Hi Michael, are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution? There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else. Which version of Windows are you running? Regards, S. On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
hi Stacho Thanks for your thoughts. My system is Vista Business, service pack 2. Sorry the name of the file in question is Vcomp100.dll. Attached is a screen shot of the error message. Michael ________________________________ From: Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error Hi Michael, are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution? There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else. Which version of Windows are you running? Regards, S. On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote: Hi
Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
And, does it help copying this DLL from Program files\Therion\bin directory to Windows\System32? S. On 27 June 2013 11:49, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
hi Stacho
Thanks for your thoughts.
My system is Vista Business, service pack 2.
Sorry the name of the file in question is Vcomp100.dll.
Attached is a screen shot of the error message.
Michael
------------------------------ *From:* Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 June 2013 5:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
Hi Michael,
are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution?
There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else.
Which version of Windows are you running?
Regards, S.
On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
I am sorry but I think I am being a bit slow! When I look in Program files\Therion\bin I cannot see the file Vcomp100.dll. How do I find it? michael ________________________________ From: Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error And, does it help copying this DLL from Program files\Therion\bin directory to Windows\System32? S. On 27 June 2013 11:49, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote: hi Stacho
Thanks for your thoughts.
My system is Vista Business, service pack 2.
Sorry the name of the file in question is Vcomp100.dll.
Attached is a screen shot of the error message.
Michael
________________________________ From: Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
Hi Michael,
are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution?
There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else.
Which version of Windows are you running?
Regards, S.
On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi
Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
It should be there, if it is not, you should reinstall therion. I believe, it is included in the installation. S. On 27 June 2013 14:21, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I am sorry but I think I am being a bit slow!
When I look in Program files\Therion\bin I cannot see the file Vcomp100.dll. How do I find it?
michael
------------------------------ *From:* Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 June 2013 9:46 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
And, does it help copying this DLL from Program files\Therion\bin directory to Windows\System32?
S.
On 27 June 2013 11:49, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
hi Stacho
Thanks for your thoughts.
My system is Vista Business, service pack 2.
Sorry the name of the file in question is Vcomp100.dll.
Attached is a screen shot of the error message.
Michael
------------------------------ *From:* Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 June 2013 5:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
Hi Michael,
are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution?
There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else.
Which version of Windows are you running?
Regards, S.
On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
I am sorry, I have now checked this, and it looks, from some reasons this DLL is not installed. Here it is, could you please copy it to Therion/bin folder? I will check installation package in the next release. I am sorry for inconvenience, S. On 27 June 2013 14:29, Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> wrote:
It should be there, if it is not, you should reinstall therion. I believe, it is included in the installation.
S.
On 27 June 2013 14:21, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I am sorry but I think I am being a bit slow!
When I look in Program files\Therion\bin I cannot see the file Vcomp100.dll. How do I find it?
michael
------------------------------ *From:* Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 June 2013 9:46 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
And, does it help copying this DLL from Program files\Therion\bin directory to Windows\System32?
S.
On 27 June 2013 11:49, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
hi Stacho
Thanks for your thoughts.
My system is Vista Business, service pack 2.
Sorry the name of the file in question is Vcomp100.dll.
Attached is a screen shot of the error message.
Michael
------------------------------ *From:* Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> *To:* List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 June 2013 5:30 PM *Subject:* Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
Hi Michael,
are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution?
There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else.
Which version of Windows are you running?
Regards, S.
On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
Easy Thankyou. System working fine now. Michael ________________________________ From: Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error I am sorry, I have now checked this, and it looks, from some reasons this DLL is not installed. Here it is, could you please copy it to Therion/bin folder? I will check installation package in the next release. I am sorry for inconvenience, S. On 27 June 2013 14:29, Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> wrote: It should be there, if it is not, you should reinstall therion. I believe, it is included in the installation.
S.
On 27 June 2013 14:21, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
I am sorry but I think I am being a bit slow!
When I look in Program files\Therion\bin I cannot see the file Vcomp100.dll. How do I find it?
michael
________________________________ From: Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
And, does it help copying this DLL from Program files\Therion\bin directory to Windows\System32?
S.
On 27 June 2013 11:49, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
hi Stacho
Thanks for your thoughts.
My system is Vista Business, service pack 2.
Sorry the name of the file in question is Vcomp100.dll.
Attached is a screen shot of the error message.
Michael
________________________________ From: Stacho Mudrak <lists@group-s.sk> To: List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk> Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Therion] ImageMagick error
Hi Michael,
are you sure, it is VLcomp100.dll and Vcomp100.dll, which is included with distribution?
There must be something wrong with the paths in your system, because this librabry is included with ImageMagick programs. May be manually copying this file to windows system32 folder could solve your problem, but I am afraid, it will fail somewhere else.
Which version of Windows are you running?
Regards, S.
On 27 June 2013 00:09, Michael Brewer <m.brewer@xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi
Can anyone help me with this error I am suddenly getting on trying to compile a map. I am not sure why I am getting this error on this particular project as it is not happening when I compile other maps. It may have something to do with one of my background images being a .gif file?
The error states: "ImageMagick Studio Library and utility programs has stopped working".
When I go to program files/therion/bin and double click on the 'convert' or 'identify' files which seem to have something to do with this ImageMagick the error comes up:
" the application has failed to start because VLcomp100.dll is not found "
I have tried uninstalling and reinstalling therion a couple of times and I still get the errors. I have searched my hard drive for this .dll file and cannot find it. There seem to be a myriad of suggestions on the net as to what to do!
I was hoping a therion user may have some specific suggestions.
thanks
Michael Brewer _______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
_______________________________________________ Therion mailing list Therion@speleo.sk http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
+++ Footleg [2013-06-26 13:42 +0100]:
I am working on a master survey of the Kingsdale System in Yorkshire, UK. There is a substantial submerged portion to the system. Over a rough distance of 1500m of sumped passage, what difference in water levels could be expected between the upstream and downstream ends of the sump?
This is a question for hydrologists, not cave surveyors :-) Although I guess we may have examples in other long flooded passages with accurately-surveyed end-levels, that might give clues. I'd expect the level differences to be of the same magnitude and typically smaller than the expected survey errors though in most cases, so we still would be none the wiser. Is there a forum for asking questions like this of the BCRA or UIS cave science types somewhere? Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM http://wookware.org/
participants (5)
-
Footleg -
Michael Brewer -
Robert Staven -
Stacho Mudrak -
Wookey