6 Dec
2007
6 Dec
'07
10:53 p.m.
Hallo everyone, hearing discussiong about symbols I thought again about mine specific symbols. While I have to admit I have perhaps not searched thoroughly, I have not found any included in therion. Well, I would be willing to design some. But it surely would be better to determine which symbols/areas would be needed first. Many of these are already in convention elsewhere, so work should be relatively straightforward. To begin I have the following suggestions. Unforunately my english is not good enough, so to avoid possible confusion I add the german words. I would be glad if a german speaker could name the translations. 1. Shaft / Schacht (up and down) 2. Sinking (?) / Gesenk 3. Weather (ventile) door / Wettertür 4. Doorway (for supporting) / Türstock (standing and ruined) 5. Where ore was mined / Abbau (up and down) 6. Hole for rolling ore downwards / Rolloch 7. Wagon rolling planks / Hundbretter 8. Hand driven wind / Haspel 9. Chamber for hand driven wind / Haspelkammer 10. Water flowing gutter / Gerinne 11. Lamp niche / Lampennische 12. Upraise / Aufhauen 13. Galley end (constr. end) / Ortsbrust 14. Hewn material / Versatz 15. Versturz 16. Special tool traces / Werkzeugspuren (Please add to the list) If I provide drawn symbols, would anyone help me converting these to metapost? It would also be nice if fellow miners would suggest symbols, too. Best greetings, and to my fellow miners a hearty Barbara's day! Christian -- Wenn Schnaps die Kehle runterlauft, (If liquor runs down the throat,) der Schacht im Wasser bald ersauft! (the shaft in water soon will drown!)
7 Dec
7 Dec
12:35 p.m.
Hi Christian,
We need somebody with mining experience to get some of the technical English phrases correct, but here are are few suggestions for improved English. I'm not precious about any of these, so other English speakers: feel free to contradict! A question mark means that I think there is a technical English mining phrase, but I can't think of it at the moment.
> 1. Shaft / Schacht (up and down).
Yes
> 2. Sinking (?) / Gesenk
2. Sink
> 3. Weather (ventile) door / Wettertür
3. I've not heard of Weather Door! Do you mean a door to seal the mine and stop a draught, or a door specifically to allow a draught? "Ventile" suggests the latter. The more straightforward English noun is just "vent" or "Vented Door".
> 4. Doorway (for supporting) / Türstock (standing and ruined)
?
> 5. Where ore was mined / Abbau (up and down)
Stope? I think a stope is a specific type of space (step-like), so may not be generic enough?
> 6. Hole for rolling ore downwards / Rolloch
?
> 7. Wagon rolling planks / Hundbretter
I guess this are placed sideways rather than lengthwise? If lengthwide, then I suppose they are a form of "rail" or "track"? But I don't know if there is a specific mining phrase for wooden planks for rolling trucks over.
> 8. Hand driven wind / Haspel
8. Windlass
> 9. Chamber for hand driven wind / Haspelkammer
9. Winding Room (but this suggests to my ear a man-made room, with powered machinery. Question for English speaking miners: would there be "winding room" underground?)
or "Windlass Chamber" is descriptive but perhaps not very meaningful...?
> 10. Water flowing gutter / Gerinne
10. just "Gutter"?, or perhaps do you mean "Leat" which is a mining term for a man-made water course (Gerinne = coagulate, suggests bringing waters together...so I wonder whether there is a specific mining phrase in English for this...?)
> 11. Lamp niche / Lampennische
Sounds OK to me...?
> 12. Upraise / Aufhauen
?
> 13. Galley end (constr. end) / Ortsbrust
?
> 14. Hewn material / Versatz
14. Spoil? I think spoil usually refers to waste material that is mined out.
> 15. Versturz
15. Collapse?
> 16. Special tool traces / Werkzeugspuren
16. Tool marks
Regards,
- Ben
> -----Original Message-----
> From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk
> [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Christian
> Rößler (Roessler)
> Sent: 06 December 2007 21:54
> To: therion@speleo.sk
> Subject: [Therion] Mine sybols?
>
> Hallo everyone,
>
> hearing discussiong about symbols I thought again about mine
> specific symbols.
> While I have to admit I have perhaps not searched thoroughly,
> I have not
> found any included in therion.
>
> Well, I would be willing to design some. But it surely would
> be better to
> determine which symbols/areas would be needed first. Many of
> these are
> already in convention elsewhere, so work should be relatively
> straightforward.
>
> To begin I have the following suggestions. Unforunately my
> english is not good
> enough, so to avoid possible confusion I add the german
> words. I would be
> glad if a german speaker could name the translations.
>
>
> If I provide drawn symbols, would anyone help me converting
> these to metapost?
> It would also be nice if fellow miners would suggest symbols, too.
>
> Best greetings, and to my fellow miners a hearty Barbara's day!
> Christian
>
> --
> Wenn Schnaps die Kehle runterlauft, (If liquor runs down
> the throat,)
> der Schacht im Wasser bald ersauft! (the shaft in water
> soon will drown!)
> _______________________________________________
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@speleo.sk
> http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>
3:48 p.m.
Am Freitag, 7. Dezember 2007 schrieb Cooper, Ben: Hallo Ben, > We need somebody with mining experience to get some of the technical > English phrases correct, but here are are few suggestions for improved > English. Thanks! > I'm not precious about any of these, so other English speakers: > feel free to contradict! > > 1. Shaft / Schacht (up and down). > Yes Good. Symbol is just a diagonally divided rectangle with one triangle blackened; should be easy. > > 2. Sinking (?) / Gesenk > 2. Sink No, a 'Gesenk' is just a kind of 'blind shaft' to search for ore beneath the galley sole. Differentation to blind shaft would be that a 'Gesenk' has no connection to a galley below. Usually water filled, but with no water flow. Symbol should be alike to 'shaft' but a bit differentiated. > > 3. Weather (ventile) door / Wettertür > 3. I've not heard of Weather Door! Do you mean a door to seal the mine and > stop a draught, or a door specifically to allow a draught? "Ventile" > suggests the latter. The more straightforward English noun is just "vent" > or "Vented Door". Well, a door to regulate air flow: Flow when opened, no flow when closed. Sorry for translating 'by the word': In the mining sense 'Wetter' means air and air flow in a mine. > > 4. Doorway (for supporting) / Türstock (standing and ruined) Two side posts and a supporting beam above both for supporting the ceiling. > > 5. Where ore was mined / Abbau (up and down) > Stope? I think a stope is a specific type of space (step-like), so may not > be generic enough? I also think so. > > 6. Hole for rolling ore downwards / Rolloch > ? Well, a narrow shaft from a place where ore was mined to the galley beneath, in which the ore was thrown so it could be easier collected and loaded below. Symbol should be perhaps alike to shaft, but a bit differentiated. > > 7. Wagon rolling planks / Hundbretter > I guess this are placed sideways rather than lengthwise? If lengthwide, > then I suppose they are a form of "rail" or "track"? Yes. The wagon 'Hund' was steered with a nail which griped into the space between the planks. Look eg here: <http://silberbergwerk-suggental.de/fileadmin/bergwerk/bilder/galerie/Arbeit_unter_Tage/1024_Arbeit_unter_Tage_13.jpg> (That's 'our' mine, and me, by the way:).) You see? > > 8. Hand driven wind / Haspel > 8. Windlass Good! > > 9. Chamber for hand driven wind / Haspelkammer > 9. Winding Room (but this suggests to my ear a man-made room, with powered > machinery. Question for English speaking miners: would there be "winding > room" underground?) or "Windlass Chamber" is descriptive but perhaps not > very meaningful...? perhaps just 'windlass chamber' would be the best fit, I think. > > 10. Water flowing gutter / Gerinne > 10. just "Gutter"?, or perhaps do you mean "Leat" which is a mining term > for a man-made water course (Gerinne = coagulate, suggests bringing waters > together...so I wonder whether there is a specific mining phrase in English > for this...?) Yes, then 'leat' would be the word! 'Gerinne' comes flor 'rinnen' = flowing slowly. > > 11. Lamp niche / Lampennische > Sounds OK to me...? Ok! > > 12. Upraise / Aufhauen > ? The opposite to 'Gesenk', but up, not down. A kind of blind shaft to search for ore above the galley ceiling, but not connected to the galley above. > > 13. Galley end (constr. end) / Ortsbrust > ? Well, where the old miners ceased to drive the galley forward. If wanted I will send an example picture. > > 14. Hewn material / Versatz > 14. Spoil? I think spoil usually refers to waste material that is mined > out. Not quite. 'Versatz' means usually hewn-out rock (oreless) filled into an old galley to prevent cave-in (hehehe, _cave_-in), or into a shaft, or just lying around. > > 15. Versturz > 15. Collapse? Yes! Taken! > > 16. Special tool traces / Werkzeugspuren > 16. Tool marks Much better! Thanks for your suggestions, Ben. Now I will have a look which symbols are used elsewhere, so we stay consistent in Therion. Then I will try to designing the missing ones, and put them to discussion. By the way, as I have seen others are attaching files, I think it would be ok if I attach the (small) graphics. I do also have some more symbol proposals, but perhaps some of these are abit exotic so I will wait with these until the ones above are cleared. Best regards, Christian
12 Dec
12 Dec
10:01 p.m.
Hi Christian, I've a couple of additions for you below. I also stumbled on the following references that may be of interest. [1] http://www.aditnow.co.uk/dictionary/mining-dictionary.aspx [2] http://xmlwords.infomine.com/xmlwords.htm Regards, - Ben > -----Original Message----- > From: therion-bounces@speleo.sk > [mailto:therion-bounces@speleo.sk] On Behalf Of Christian > Rößler (Roessler) > Sent: 07 December 2007 14:48 > To: therion@speleo.sk > Subject: Re: [Therion] Mine sybols? > > Am Freitag, 7. Dezember 2007 schrieb Cooper, Ben: > > Hallo Ben, > > > We need somebody with mining experience to get some of the technical > > English phrases correct, but here are are few suggestions > for improved > > English. > > Thanks! > > > I'm not precious about any of these, so other English speakers: > > feel free to contradict! > > > > 1. Shaft / Schacht (up and down). > > Yes > > Good. Symbol is just a diagonally divided rectangle with one triangle > blackened; should be easy. > > > > 2. Sinking (?) / Gesenk > > 2. Sink > > No, a 'Gesenk' is just a kind of 'blind shaft' to search for > ore beneath the > galley sole. Differentation to blind shaft would be that a > 'Gesenk' has no > connection to a galley below. Usually water filled, but with > no water flow. > > Symbol should be alike to 'shaft' but a bit differentiated. 2. Winze? (a shaft that only goes down from a level with no corresponding shaft up to the surface). Pronounced similar to English "wins". > > > > 3. Weather (ventile) door / Wettertür > > 3. I've not heard of Weather Door! Do you mean a door to > seal the mine and > > stop a draught, or a door specifically to allow a draught? > "Ventile" > > suggests the latter. The more straightforward English noun > is just "vent" > > or "Vented Door". > > Well, a door to regulate air flow: Flow when opened, no flow > when closed. > Sorry for translating 'by the word': In the mining sense > 'Wetter' means air > and air flow in a mine. Well, an "air-lock" stops air flow, so perhaps air-lock or air-lock door, or even, given your explanation, Weather Door is OK! In a cave, we use the UK word "draught" (or US "draft") , which has several meanings, including the flow of air. So perhaps "draught door"...? > > > > 4. Doorway (for supporting) / Türstock (standing and ruined) > > Two side posts and a supporting beam above both for > supporting the ceiling. > > > > 5. Where ore was mined / Abbau (up and down) > > Stope? I think a stope is a specific type of space > (step-like), so may not > > be generic enough? > > I also think so. > > > > 6. Hole for rolling ore downwards / Rolloch > > ? > > Well, a narrow shaft from a place where ore was mined to the > galley beneath, > in which the ore was thrown so it could be easier collected > and loaded below. > Symbol should be perhaps alike to shaft, but a bit differentiated. > > > > 7. Wagon rolling planks / Hundbretter > > I guess this are placed sideways rather than lengthwise? > If lengthwide, > > then I suppose they are a form of "rail" or "track"? > > Yes. The wagon 'Hund' was steered with a nail which griped > into the space > between the planks. Look eg here: > <http://silberbergwerk-suggental.de/fileadmin/bergwerk/bilder/ > galerie/Arbeit_unter_Tage/1024_Arbeit_unter_Tage_13.jpg> > (That's 'our' mine, and me, by the way:).) You see? > > > > 8. Hand driven wind / Haspel > > 8. Windlass > > Good! > > > > 9. Chamber for hand driven wind / Haspelkammer > > 9. Winding Room (but this suggests to my ear a man-made > room, with powered > > machinery. Question for English speaking miners: would > there be "winding > > room" underground?) or "Windlass Chamber" is descriptive > but perhaps not > > very meaningful...? > > perhaps just 'windlass chamber' would be the best fit, I think. > > > > 10. Water flowing gutter / Gerinne > > 10. just "Gutter"?, or perhaps do you mean "Leat" which is > a mining term > > for a man-made water course (Gerinne = coagulate, suggests > bringing waters > > together...so I wonder whether there is a specific mining > phrase in English > > for this...?) > > Yes, then 'leat' would be the word! 'Gerinne' comes flor > 'rinnen' = flowing > slowly. > > > > 11. Lamp niche / Lampennische > > Sounds OK to me...? > > Ok! > > > > 12. Upraise / Aufhauen > > ? > > The opposite to 'Gesenk', but up, not down. A kind of blind > shaft to search > for ore above the galley ceiling, but not connected to the > galley above. Could be a "rise" (or US "raise"). Note both a winze and a rise can connect levels, but I understand that this is not always the case. > > > > 13. Galley end (constr. end) / Ortsbrust > > ? > > Well, where the old miners ceased to drive the galley > forward. If wanted I > will send an example picture. > > > > 14. Hewn material / Versatz > > 14. Spoil? I think spoil usually refers to waste material > that is mined > > out. > > Not quite. 'Versatz' means usually hewn-out rock (oreless) > filled into an old > galley to prevent cave-in (hehehe, _cave_-in), or into a > shaft, or just lying > around. Waste rock is used in [1]. "Deads" is a stack of waste rock, not necessarily to stop a cave-in. > > > > 15. Versturz > > 15. Collapse? > > Yes! Taken! > > > > 16. Special tool traces / Werkzeugspuren > > 16. Tool marks > > Much better! > > Thanks for your suggestions, Ben. Now I will have a look > which symbols are > used elsewhere, so we stay consistent in Therion. Then I will try to > designing the missing ones, and put them to discussion. By > the way, as I have > seen others are attaching files, I think it would be ok if I > attach the > (small) graphics. > > I do also have some more symbol proposals, but perhaps some > of these are abit > exotic so I will wait with these until the ones above are cleared. > > Best regards, > Christian > _______________________________________________ > Therion mailing list > Therion@speleo.sk > http://www.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion > > -- > This email has been verified as Virus free > Virus Protection and more available at http://www.plus.net >
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Christian Rößler (Roessler) -
Cooper, Ben