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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-NZ link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Good morning<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>An update on this conversation <a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/therion@speleo.sk/msg09676.html">[Therion] th_formdef.tex runaway text error</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>therion 6.4.0+d6d9a18f (2026-05-17) fixed the runaway text problem for me, but now I seem to have expanded the load in the same thconfig file by changing, in my thconfig, ‘maps on’ to ‘maps off’.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I have been experimenting with </span>texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf, changing the setting from:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>extra_mem_top = 4000000<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>to<span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal>extra_mem_top = 6500000 %this value based on the guidance re maximum must be less than 8000000 total<span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The Therion log transcript for that is below:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:1.0pt 4.0pt 1.0pt 4.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>######################## pdftex log file #########################<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>This is pdfTeX, Version 3.141592653-2.6-1.40.22 (TeX Live 2021/W32TeX) (preloaded format=pdfetex 2023.12.2) 9 AUG 2026 10:04<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>entering extended mode<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>**data.tex<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>(./data.tex (./th_enc.tex) (./th_texts.tex) (./th_resources.tex<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>(c:/Program Files/Therion/texmf/tex/glyphtounicode.tex)) (./th_fontdef.tex{c:/P<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>rogram Files/Therion/texmf/fonts/pdftex.map}) (./th_fontdef2.tex)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>(./th_formdef.tex<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Runaway text</span><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>0.2450<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>! TeX capacity exceeded, sorry [main memory size=8000000].<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>l.373350 \PL{0.24501<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> w}%<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>If you really absolutely need more capacity,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>you can ask a wizard to enlarge me.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 273 strings out of 95671<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 3888 string characters out of 1192323<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 8000001 words of memory out of <span style='background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>8000000</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 1674 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+50000<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 16503 words of font info for 54 fonts, out of 1000000 for 2000<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 844 hyphenation exceptions out of 5000<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 5i,1n,6p,415b,36s stack positions out of 5000i,500n,10000p,200000b,50000s<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>! ==> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>##################### end of pdftex log file #####################<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>C:\Program Files\Therion\therion.exe: error -- pdftex exit code -- 1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>writing xtherion file ... done<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The guidance in texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf suggests 8000000 is the maximum, so I stopped there for a while, but then I tried 9000000.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>And success!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The equivalent tex log message below…<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:1.0pt 4.0pt 1.0pt 4.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Here is how much of TeX's memory you used:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 311 strings out of 95671<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 4227 string characters out of 1192323<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 8353892 words of memory out of <span style='background:yellow;mso-highlight:yellow'>9066935</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 1706 multiletter control sequences out of 15000+50000<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 16503 words of font info for 54 fonts, out of 1000000 for 2000<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 844 hyphenation exceptions out of 5000<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 8i,5n,6p,415b,46s stack positions out of 5000i,500n,10000p,200000b,50000s<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><c:/Program Files/Therion/texmf/fonts/type1/cmr10.pfb><c:/Program Files/T<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>herion/texmf/fonts/type1/cmss10.pfb><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Output written on data.pdf (1 page, 1580708 bytes).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>PDF statistics:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 54 PDF objects out of 1000 (max. 8388607)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 31 compressed objects within 1 object stream<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 0 named destinations out of 1000 (max. 500000)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0mm'><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> 115 words of extra memory for PDF output out of 10000 (max. 10000000)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So if the limit is not 8000000, is there a limit?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Or are there possible problems with going over 8000000?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Might needing so much memory allocated suggest some problem with my dataset?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Curious that ‘maps off’ requires more memory than ‘maps on’ (this is a 70 km cave but there are scraps drawn for only 15 km)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Any insights appreciated.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Bruce<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Martin Budaj<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 21 May 2026 05:29<br><b>To:</b> List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Therion] th_formdef.tex runaway text error<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>after testing Bruce's dataset, it seems TeX really runs out of memory in this case. <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>You can increase it in the file texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf. Set<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>extra_mem_top = 4000000 % originally 2000000 in the embedded TeX distribution in Therion for Windows<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I also updated this in the Windows installer: <a href="https://github.com/therion/therion/actions/runs/25989238617">https://github.com/therion/therion/actions/runs/25989238617</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Martin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Apr 19, 2026 at 7:20<span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span>AM <<a href="mailto:bruce@tomo.co.nz">bruce@tomo.co.nz</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I’m exploring what might be causing this problem that I raised 3 weeks ago (copied below).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It has been affecting a project where we are migrating a lot of centrelines from On-Station to Therion.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Back in March this problem only affected exported pdf elevations that were over about 30 km in length.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Now we are closer to 63 km, it is also affecting exported pdf plans.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If I drill down to subsets of the project, there is no particular atomic subset that errors out.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Seems like when the subset drops below around 30 km the problem resolves itself and everything works OK.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Paring the layout used for exports down to specify only the scale of the output and then gradually adding statements, I have narrowed the culprit down to the <b>colour map-fg</b> statement.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Specifically, <b>colour map-fg [97 86 38]</b> is what seems to trigger the error.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Similarly <b>colour map-fg scrap</b> and <b>colour map-fg map</b>.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>However <b>colour map-fg 50</b> does not exhibit the problem for the 30-ish km centrelines. An example below.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Neither does <b>colour map-fg altitude</b> (a colour legend is placed in the header, but the LRUD is not coloured – don’t know if that is expected or not).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This breaks down somewhat at 60-ish km and all pdf exports fail even with only a scale specified.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I have not figured out if this affects all my large projects, as I got interrupted by the map -survey option problem reported earlier.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Stepping back in time, based on limited testing, all versions back to at least therion 6.2.1 (2024-03-20) behave similarly).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Bruce<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></blockquote></div></body></html>