<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<style type="text/css" style="display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
HI Beni and Ben,</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I have applied those fixes, it's looking much better now i've applied the following to the mine level and added the points back in.</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
"centreline
<div>grade UISv1_5</div>
<div>sd position 1 m</div>
<div>sd x 1 m</div>
sd y 1 m"<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
I have also changed the survey grade of some of the loop closure passages to be <span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important">grade UISv1_3, which has helped loosen them up a little. I've asked the person i'm helping whether we
can apply the grade 3 fix to some more passages, but I think we'll have to choose wisely which we alter with this fix.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important">But I guess therion/survex is already applying this fix anyway, so it would be better for us to choose where it tightens and loosens the loop closer.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);display:inline !important">Thank you for the suggestions, I'll try and let you know how it goes.</span></div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<br>
</div>
<div id="Signature">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; color:#000000; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<font class="ecxApple-style-span" size="3"><font face="Arial">Regards,</font><font face="Arial"><br>
</font><font face="Arial">Alastair Gott.</font><font face="Arial"><br>
<br>
</font><font face="Arial">AlastairGott@hotmail.com,</font><font face="Arial"><br>
</font><font face="Arial">M: 07931779380.</font></font><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="appendonsend"></div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Therion <therion-bounces@speleo.sk> on behalf of Benedikt Hallinger <beni@hallinger.org><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 November 2020 08:09<br>
<b>To:</b> List for Therion users <therion@speleo.sk><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Therion] Connection of Really straight mine level to surveyed passage</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">Another option would be to get the coordinates of the linking mine station and fixing it, and just giving that station a „perfect“ Standards deviation (isn’t that default if not given?)</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">Am 14.11.2020 um 21:29 schrieb Ben Cooper <ben@caver.plus.com>:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Alistair
<div>I would definitely link all the survey centrelines. The implication is that you have some errors in the survey, but you know that the straight mine level needs to be straight so the error isn’t there. One thing you could try is to set the SD for the level
to be very low, and the SD for the rest of the cave to be quite high. When Therion distributes the error, most of this should go to the survey sections either the highest SD, and the level should be less distorted. </div>
<div>Best regards </div>
<div>Ben</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On 14 Nov 2020, at 11:49, alastair gott <alastairgott@hotmail.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
HI Therion people,</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I'm helping with a project we've got a cave/mine system with a really straight mine level for one of the entrances, which we have the centreline data for (but no sketches to show where the points are).</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
When the system was joined up together with all the entrances there was a kink in the mine level. so to counteract this, I removed some of the unknown survey points in the centre of the level and hung the survey on some points at the beginning and end of the
level.</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
I now want to add in a section of cave in the centre of the level. I have connected this quite well in a map at a lower level with just the one entrance coordinates in it, but when I run the full map with all the entrances in, the model then tries to remove
the loop error by doing it's statisical wizardry.</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Unfortunately in doing so, it shifts the start of the level (the entrance) to the east. and then leaves the section of cave out unconnected.</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
If anyone can help, then the config for the full system is here: <a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cave-registry.org.uk%2Fsvn%2FPeakDistrict%2FCastleton%2Fpeak_speedwell_model%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1f1e9dd467c24016498a08d8893df764%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637410246519365911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ZPk8DRBXvmSvvJYqFyWGU15PCQsMqQ1nuM6UFMcRpWY%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/" shash="HqI+OBbxB76ugzTtJT61J9TtSs/9V4p8TlHgSN/CNm8GLAydmPDnmG56BPsr0EqJniM3ZqncHkUQBBN9RlTG3BuEJnPEPQVo7mz8XYcvjyXrG13dHdbdht6Qz8U3S6gE02Bq86osOCT3vLMeqyz0nSgiEbr3zz8ZqmAsEKn4zF4=" id="LPlnk815444">http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/</a></div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is what I get:</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div><image.png></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
the config for the one entrance coordinate is here:
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt"><a href="https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cave-registry.org.uk%2Fsvn%2FPeakDistrict%2FCastleton%2Fpeak_speedwell_model%2Fspeedwell_mine%2FSpeedwell_mine_thconfig.thc&data=04%7C01%7C%7C1f1e9dd467c24016498a08d8893df764%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637410246519365911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=AfKnso9AUbw0UzNSOYJxjwjf4edH7jnEqshbUCsBE44%3D&reserved=0" originalsrc="http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/speedwell_mine/Speedwell_mine_thconfig.thc" shash="cGE1LtF6F53D5DAQPHcnE5Ln1HX82TxQDQN9oAGBC3EZVQAA0z4wQ8dhgjtwJEYja4Y2ANLDzFvyqTFIMVJcijts3aTz5LBf18Jj20RYz4KcfK90z602uag3gX9zfLRHajQRlvrNSAI+hKRHeqG49i9ngbWiz1/N+GJ7loo8Uf0=" style="margin:0px">http://www.cave-registry.org.uk/svn/PeakDistrict/Castleton/peak_speedwell_model/speedwell_mine/Speedwell_mine_thconfig.thc</a><br>
</div>
<div style="margin:0px; font-size:12pt"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
and these are the two selects if you want to run it at the lower level:</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<pre style="white-space:pre-wrap">select bottomless_pit.speedwell_mine
select oakden_level.speedwell_mine</pre>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
This is what I want:</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div><image.png></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
If I add in a survey point to hook it to, then I get this:</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div><image.png></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Rather than this:</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div><image.png></div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Adding in more survey points further down the passage to the south only increases the amount of distortion in a small space of passage. as there are three loop closures at the bottom of the picture [just below the red circle) which the model is running (i've
just not included the maps on the drawing for clarity).</div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div id="x_Signature">
<div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div id="x_divtagdefaultwrapper" dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt; color:#000000; font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<font class="x_ecxApple-style-span" size="3"><font face="Arial">Regards,</font><font face="Arial"><br>
</font><font face="Arial">Alastair Gott.</font><font face="Arial"><br>
<br>
</font><font face="Arial">AlastairGott@hotmail.com,</font><font face="Arial"><br>
</font><font face="Arial">M: 07931779380.</font></font><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Therion mailing list</span><br>
<span>Therion@speleo.sk</span><br>
<span>https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Therion mailing list</span><br>
<span>Therion@speleo.sk</span><br>
<span>https://mailman.speleo.sk/listinfo/therion</span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>